Enroute washouts / psych outs

Papa_Papa Rookie No Mans Land

So what's the low down? Hear-say is 70% washout rate for enroute ...so only 4-5 people passing from a class? Any insight from current students or prior. Looks like some people should learn they're not in a college setting anymore and it's your potential career. Failure isn't an option, party later .

BOILER_UP Junior Member West Lafayette, IN

you mean 30% washout rate? 70% success. My friend just got back from academy. 60% success rate for his class.

Maybe colleges should quit being so lenient. But they only care about money. There is no way some of the kids in my classes will make it a week in okc.

mikecoyne34 Trusted Contributor BNA

The ability to do this job doesn't have much to do with intelligence or study habits. Some people can do it and some can't. The academy teaches you the most basic of basic application of this job. The academy is about as easy as it's going to get. That's the best place to find out if you can do it or not instead of working at a facility for years then being booted. Of course that's in the FAAs eyes.

mikefsfr Senior Analyst Train Me.

The FAA is more than ability and study . It's as screwed up and warped as American politics- from trainers certifying retards to holding back people with the upmost capability. Play the game- I never dreamed it was this bad but it's sickening.do research on where you want to be.

FM_Weasel Trusted Contributor

Yeah, potential success is tough to judge in this job. Personal work ethic does count for a lot. But don't rule out politics and facility morale. Those two may have more influence on your success than your study habits or ability.

If you're really good at the job then you should be OK assuming you don't piss off the wrong people. It's when you get to more average performers where you start to see people of similar talents have totally different training outcomes.

skyway172 Rookie

I have a friend in an up/down that said there was a new controller hired there about a year ago. The new controller passed the academy, and went to the facility. On a checkride, the new controller had 2 deals, and was putting 172's in front of A320's on final (or similar where speed would have been an issue and someone had to go around). Regardless, the new controller got signed off. Someone complained stating "How can they get certified when they can't even run final without putting planes together?" The Sup said "Well, they'll learn it eventually". Every facility is different, and although nobody is perfect, I wouldn't expect to get certified on that run if I put planes together during my final facility PV.

rogersjf Trusted Contributor New Jersey

The academy is failing to produce the results the centers want this is evident in a memo that was circulated in late 2011 & early 2012 by ATM's. Subsequently, the academy added 6 more people to the new course and became more stringent on grading students thus making the washout rate higher at the academy. They have also added more scenarios during the PV(which in my opinion are very different in the degree of difficulty based on which one you get). Example leading up to the PV you see multiple JAN emergencies (10+) however you see a very minimal amount of GWO emergencies (3 to be exact) during the beginning of your runs. However on the PV I saw no JAN emergencies instead I had the GWO emergencies. Where as multiple students had the opposite. LIkewise they have changed the point system in the way prompts and coordinations are graded.

Being one of those washouts (less then a point) it sucks, however the problem rests in the lack of oversight of the evaluators. They are judge, jury and executioner. The prime example that I can use is my one evaluator (perry ann) stated in my debriefing

"That I was sitting to close to the R-side. and if that was her she would have felt very uncomfortable, working with me. However I did not take points off for that on your sheet."

The one problem is that under FOIA i requested all of my documents and on the paper there it was 2 points off for sitting to close to the R-side. There is no oversight and clearly one can question that whole grading sheet based on the above, however as a probationary employee you have no recourse.

You can better understand the failure rates based on how the academy is failing in this independent review commissioned by the FAA http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/medi...2020110922.pdf it is worth a read. Likewise I believe once the numbers come out for he whole 2012 you will see a spik in washouts on the enroute side.

The key to the academy is to make it out, once you do the joke is the academy.

mikecoyne34 Trusted Contributor BNA

Question. I was in tower class this past November. The one guy that failed with the examiners that came in from other locations on his 2 attempts, was given a third chance from an unbiased, in house, QA guy. Are enroute students given the same opportunity?

rogersjf Trusted Contributor New Jersey

No that is not an enroute option however if you request your file under FOIA that sheet is located in your file JO3120.27 http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...JO3120.27C.pdf. Doctors get more chances on their boards then enroute. However tower will be switching over to the enroute grading in the near future

AC2 Rookie

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...a/CWP_2012.pdf

(Pg. 33) in 2011 55 people washed out in the academy.
(pg. 37) 824 people were hired in 2011.

Thats only a 14% washout rate.

2013 125 projected to washout at the academy; out of the 1324 projected new hires

Thats less than a 10% washout rate.