New Requirement for FO???

irishcarbomb Moderator Houston, TX

i know we have a few airline guys/gals here...whatcha think?

Congress to toughen airline standards - USATODAY.com

marklar84 Senior Member U.S.A....U.S.A.....U.S.A.

This is gonna shoot the ICAO "Multi-Crew Pilot License" right in the foot! It was a terrible idea from the beginning, but this colgan crash demonstrated the need for more and better training, not less.

irishcarbomb Moderator Houston, TX

yea..i say good luck finding ATPs that can fly as PIC but are hired for SIC and get payed $24/hr...

ParrotheadJGR11 Junior Member Atlanta

i don't think it's a good idea. this will put many FBOs and Flight Schools out of business IMO... they're already hurting for students as it is now, and when the minimum requirements are raised, many student pilots will not have the money or time to devote to getting 1500+ hours before getting hired at a regional making as low as 16.00/hr (great lakes)

Cheeks Senior Member

Exactly! You hit the nail on the head but blindly and came to the wrong conclusion. Maybe there are a few innocent victims along the way but if they run out of dumbass kids afflicted with shiney jet syndrome and hit that mysterious and evasive pilot shortage that I have hearing about for the last 10 years, then the shitty regional airlines will no longer be able to get by with paying pilots slave wages. When pilot pay comes up again, the flight schools will be fine.

If you look at foreign airlines for example, where pilots are still regarded and paid well, many will actually pay for their future pilot's training through ab/initio programs. British Airways and Cathay Pacific I know do this and I know there are more. Imagine an environment created here where airlines would actually pay you for your training versus you paying them for your training. That is how it should be.

nevets Rookie

That was my first thought as well. And if this bill would do that, then that alone is a good reason for this to pass.

You have to stop compromising safety at some point. Apparently the House Aviation Subcommittee thinks we have reached that point. This will put pressure on the puppy mill pilot schools that advertise zero to hero in 9 months with an RJ job waiting on the other end. But I also disagree that pilots will not have the money or time to devote to getting 1500 hours. Well, they may not have the money to get 1500 hours which means that only the serious dedicated ones are the ones who will continue developing their knowledge, professionalism, self-worth by instructing, banner towing, glider towing, traffic watch, pipeline watch, aerial mapping/photography, freight, etc. in order to earn their 1500 hours. In the process, hopefully that also puts pressure on airlines to increase their pilot pay about that 16.00/hr. And since this will level the playing field as far as hiring minimums, who would go work at Great Lakes in a 1900 when they can go to ExpressJet instead, for example.

By the way, the requirement is not for 1500 hours. Its for an ATP certificate, which requires 1500 hours, among other things.

The Fold Transmitting in the Blind South Florida

Absolutely BS if you ask me, more senators grandstanding like always.

It would be nice if someone could start with 0 hours, go through to get a degree in aeronautics, with that degree, secure a job as a trainee pilot, where they get paid something similar to AG pay, and then they begin their training as a pilot, from zero to fully rated, before ever stepping foot in a jet, and without having to pay for any of it, minus the degree, out of pocket.

But that would never happen.

As it is right now, there are people like me, who want to be pilots, and don't have the financial resources to put forth paying to fly around in a 2 or 4 seater single engine aircraft, hundreds of hours, while there are rich kids' with Shiny jet syndrome and their daddies paying for all of their flight time.

Sigh. Europe is no better, there you have to pay for your type ratings

BoilerWings Newcomer

I think the real problem goes back to American's thinking that they can travel at $100 fares. No U.S. airline is going to pay for training like Lufthansa does. They simply cannot afford that AND grow AND be competitive.

If the ATP becomes a minimum for an airline job, not much will change. The rule picks up all the furloughed guys right now, but wages won't raise. There will always be someone who's willing to fly an RJ for 24K/yr. Especially in tough economic times like we're seeing now. 24K is better than unemployment. And there are A LOT of unemployed pilots right now with 1500+.

atciwrs Rookie VA

The whole thing is disgusting, to think that you may be paid that much. What is more disgusting, is that there are people lined up to do it. Cape Air will pay a FO $9 an hour. And they are interviewing (as seen on thir website) for hiring pools. People are lined up to go into a pool.. What a dream it was, so they thought..

rdaher Newcomer

Requiring an ATP is not the (only) solution to the larger scale problem. Pay and quality of life are two areas where airlines need significant improvement. This then ties into the issue of fatigue. Everyone has to commute because they can't afford a decent quality of life where they are based. That equals exhausted pilots who sleep in the crew room and bathe in the public restroom sinks at the airport. These circumstances are in fact the reality and provide a very large margin of error and compromise safety. For example, I remember an FO who used to live in the closet in the crew room b/c he couldn't afford rent. Yikes! This was about the point when I realized I needed to get out...QUICK! What ever happened to that little rule of being "Fit to FLY"? Well, it's almost impossible when you are not provided with the means to do that.

Point being, an ATP requirement is just the beginning.