AF_ATC Newcomer

# 1

I am about to commission with the USAF as an ATC officer. After 4 years, I'm looking to head to the FAA with a VRA. Something that has interested me perhaps later in my FAA career is becoming a supervisor. The problem is that I can't seem to find much information about the qualifications necessary, what a sup job entails, pay differences, advantages/disadvantages of being a sup instead of an ATC. Can anyone help enlighten me?

Thanks in advance!

SkylinesSuck Junior Member Just back in NC from Okinawa

# 2

Supervisors in the FAA are controllers who have moved up. I, along with most of the VRA guys on here have probably worked with a lot of AOF officers both in the RAPCON/Tower and "across the street". Don't expect to get out of the AF and slide right into a supervisor spot with the FAA. It doesn't work like that. Your best hope is to actually get a CTO or a RAPC while you doing your officer training in the AOF. I know several I have worked with would work at BOPS, get flight data in tower, then come over to the RAPCON and get CD, then we'd never see them again. If you do that, you'll never work for the FAA as a controller. Get checked out the right way, or at least find somebody willing to pencil whip you some ratings (which happens a lot with AOF officers---especially hot young ones ).

Basically, you aren't going to be anymore qualified to be a supervisor in the FAA than I will (I was a line controller and WS), and that's only if you get rated. Get some signatures on that pink card or a CTO!

O yeah, might get a little better response if you put this in the VRA section. Good luck!

AF_ATC Newcomer

# 3

Thanks for the fast reply. I don't intend on walking out of the AF into a supervisor position. My career plan right now is 4 ith the AF, then on to the FAA as a controller for 5-10 years and then move to supervisor if it is open. I don't know much about what qualifies someone to become a supervisor though so I'm not sure how accurate that career plan is.

As far as ATC while in the Air Force, because I plan on swapping to the FAA, I plan on getting as much ATC time as possible without affecting my role as an officer. I won't accept any pencil whip ratings however. I am fully willing to put in the time and effort to earn them and really don't want to just be "pushed through."

whegner Rookie

# 4

Well, you have the right attitude.

Supervisory positions in both the FAA and military are ultimately based on experience and time in the job. There really is no special school or course work that you would have to go through to obtain a supervisory rating...basically it's a matter of qualifying on all the pertinent operating positions and demonstrating competence and good judgement in managing a crew. One thing though, is it never hurts to take advantage of as much training as you can get in the AF in both ATC and airfield management. Things like TERPS and airport planing can only help you in your overall development.

Good luck with your future career and remember, you are a leader first and a technician second. The most important advice any of us former military guys can give you though is listen to and trust your SNCO's and NCO's! Those guys are there for the long haul and if you let them, they will make you golden.

Radium Trusted Contributor

# 5

AF_ATC.

You wil NOT have the time to become a quality ATCer without sacrificing your officer career. You will come down to the radar room (or up to the twr), and the whole atmosphere will change because you are "the boss". To go so far as you WILL NOT be held to the same standard.

After you get checked out, you will only have enough time to stay proficient... so prepare for an ass kicking when ya get to the FAA. Since you will pretty much have less experiance than someone coming from a quality CTI school.

BUT: best of luck.

Oh and if I sound like im being a douche, well that happens... lol... but I'm just trying to be COMPLETELY, BLATENTLY HONEST WITH YOU... especially since once you get commisioned you will never get that again.

-gh (ex usaf radar, now faa tracon)

Matty13 Senior Member

# 6

Supervisor positions in the FAA are based on kissing the right ass at roughly the right time. A Front Line Manager (or FLM) is not selected for leadership ability, nor for creative problem-solving ability, nor for any of the skills you would think you'd want in a manager or supervisor. They are selected because they can be counted on to do what they're told by an Operations Manager, who is in turn dictated to by the Air Traffic Manager and his/her deputy. At that level only (ATM) are managers given some room for creativity, and it arrives in the form of "I don't care how you [enforce the dress code, reduce credit hours balance, implement some questionable procedure or equipment, increase time on position], just get it done!"

An FLM takes abuse from both sides. Usually they are certified to work only one operating position, yet they are somehow supposed to be accountable overall for every position in their tower or area of specialization (center or TRACON). Tho OM doesn't think enough people are working (though the traffic is slow) and directs the FLM to staff another position or two. The FLM does so, then has a bunch of bored controllers sitting around asking why such-and-such is staffed, there's no traffic. The breaks take longer to come around, and when the traffic picks up people have been sitting on position for longer and are more prone to fatigue. Controllers get crankier, and loudly question the FLM's actions. FLM's and higher managers have very limited authority to discipline a controller. The FAA is not the military, there is no directive to show respect to an incompetent boss.

Three parts of leadership are authority, responsibility and accountability. An FLM has only the last.

Advantages: Higher pay, more opportunity to change locations (apparently FLM's are dropping like flies, the FAA keeps making more of them). If you screw up there's a good chance you'll get promoted.

Disadvantages: Besides what I've listed above, you don't get to work traffic (except for eight hours a month), you have almost zero protection from discipline, you can be made to work overtime with almost no notice. If you side with a controller against management, you are risking your career.

There's more, but that's all I can coherently write now.

GeorgeM Junior Member ZDV

# 7

And if good people refuse to bid on management jobs, it will never change.

Matty13 Senior Member

# 8

"Good people" cannot affect how the FAA does what it does from the lowest levels on up. You either toe the line or you go back to the boards, or get fired. There needs to be a 1981-style firing of everyone MSS-3 and above. Babbitt needs to replace the HQ pukes with controllers, and traffic dodging can no longer be a prerequisite for promotion. Management positions should be details only. Do five years then back to the boards.

The actual functionality of FLM's is so minimal, they could easily be replaced with a GS-7 admin type.

usothrowed Trusted Contributor H-Town

# 9

Dang, so if I try to become a supervisor just to earn a little extra pay would I be labled a traffic dodger?

otterstrom Trusted Member USA

# 10

Correction: Supervisors in the FAA are ex-controllers who have stepped down.