CTI: Waste of Time?

bsusnitzky Newcomer Santa Clara, California

Hello everybody,
After joining a few days ago and reading through most of the posts on the forum about employment, it seems like going through a CTI school doesnt give me much benefit at all, and I would still have to wait around half a year or an entire year after graduation If i pass all classes and the AT-SAT.

To be honest Im still a little confused about the hiring process if i graduate through a CTI program, for example lets just use UND. So, I will start the program in Fall 2010, and hopefully graduate Spring 2014, and which point UND will send a reccomendation off to the FAA. After this, I will have to apply for a job on the FAA website that is just for CTI Graduates, and wait for a response, at which point they will give me an academy date and a TOL for a facility. If i am able to pass through the academy, I will then be given a date to go to my facility and start the check out process. Is this all right?

It seems to me that this just adds 4 years of time onto the time it will take to get hired, but seeing as I will enter the CTI program straight out of high school, there is no way for me to get in the game any faster. I guess my main question is for somebody who has succeded in the entire CTI route, to draw out some kind of map or explain the hiring process step by step, or link to me a thread i may have missed where this is described.
Thanks!

ATCtower Epic Member

Welcome to StuckMic!

Glad to have you here and please browse around and ask any questions you may have.


The CTI program was overshadowed in the ATC world in 2008 by the vast influx of public announcements. As of today, there is yet to be a public announcement for 2009. The only people who have been allowed to apply without prior experience this year are CTI graduates. We will likely see the public announcement process change a bit with a diminished demand for it though an increase in supply of graduates from CTI schools.

If you were to attend UND's CTI program, you would be entitled to a few things that others are not. First, UND is a great school! When you graduate you will also have a degree in aviation management or administration and the CTI certificate that will allow you to apply to CTI announcements. As it stands right now, the CTI announcement will be an ongoing announcement that you may apply to anytime after graduation. The CTI process is still quite drawn out much like the OTS process when it comes time for actual application. Your timeline of events is pretty much accurate but there are a few steps you are missing. Going the CTI PEPC (most common) route is similar to this:

-Take the AT-SAT (generally the semester before graduation)
-Graduate
-Apply to the CTI announcement on the FAA's ASAP system- At this time you will submit your geographic preferences (two states).
-Make the referral list for one or both states listed in your geographic preferences
-Be chosen at the selection panel that meets shortly after the referral lists come out
-Receive an invitation to PEPC for interview, medical, vision exam, etc.
-Receive TOL at the PEPC or shortly after
-Wait for a list of academy dates and select one when available
-Receive FOL shortly before OKC training
- 5-13 weeks of training at OKC for your field or facility
-PV at OKC as a final exam
-Begin OJTI at your facility

I hope this helped somewhat. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

raptor145 Newcomer

Hey,
I just completed a four year degree and only had to take one additional class in order to get the CTI recomendation. From what I've been told, the entire point of CTI is to get people in there with higher education who will eventually have the abilities and skills to be more than just a controller for 25 years, maybe a supervisor or higher up. CTI may seem like a waste and you can probably do the job just as well either way when it comes down to it, but think of what you would do if you loose your medical or have an issue where you loose your controller job? Well, odds are if you joined straight out of highschool, you will have a very difficult time finding a new job... Whereas if you have a Bachelors degree in something you will still be doing ok. I feel like degree's are overrated and all you really have to do is pay for them to get them, but into todays society they are almost required to do anything.

The school I graduated from, Jacksonville University, has a pretty cool program. You can get a degree in Aviation Management, choose one certain class (advanced ATC) as an elective that is required anyway, and you have yourself a recomendation for the AT-SAT and a Bachelors. May not have all the crazy sims and stuff, but you get the same recomendation that everyone else gets and go to the same training too.

Remember it is College Training Initiative, even though I think there are schools you can go to and get the CTI in two years with pretty much nothing to show for it. I'm not saying that college grads are any better than those who aren't, but the FAA thinks a college grad is better suited to become a leader, of sorts, for them.

luna75 I am THE Pocket Ninja farmingdale ny

im an ots and to be honest, I wish i had the time and money to go back and get my cti degree in something...im not putting down us ots peeps but in reality im 28, turning 29 in july and if at least i had my associates in airport management or my bachelors in engineering like i really wanted, I'd have a back up in case i am not hired before im 31

like i said its reality here, i have to accept that i may realistically may NOT get hired and if i had a some type of degree then my chances of an aviation related career would go up somewhat....unfortunately it is not easy for some people to take out the loans to pay for school, sometimes its not about the money but just being able to devote the time to school, if you're married with children, have a mortgage etc, it is very hard to find the time for school when you have to work to pay your mortgage/rent/daycare/car payment etc...so someone like me who wanted to go to cti school and couldnt at the time jumped on the ots apps and to be honest, I am glad that i did.....

i DO NOT think cti is a waste of time, you should be very proud of yourself that you were able to go that route, dont let anything make you think otherwise.

MTCTIGUY Trusted Member The 'Boro

CTI is not a waste of time. Besides getting an education and a foot in the door for ATC, you also get the college experience. There's nothing like it anywhere else.

Muneco Epic Member

There are programs that offer 2 years to get a CTI degree. Like ATC said, the pubnats kind of made it unecessary to go through the CTI or Military route. But it is something that will not last for too long and getting your CTI may be the best bet. Before pubnats ATCers were hired this way:

The FAA hires:
PATCO Controllers - members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization that were fired by Reagan in the 1981 strike. As per Clinton, fired PATCO controllers are now eligible to be rehired.

DOD controllers - military controllers or civilian controllers working at military facilities.

REHIRED Controllers - controller who once worked with the F.A.A., then spent time away and are now returning i.e. "rehired."

CTI's - CTI (Collegiate Training Initiative), controllers that have attended an FAA approved college that has an ATC education program.

Pubnats will eventually become obsolete. You don't have to go to a four year school. Good luck!

MTCTIGUY Trusted Member The 'Boro

Yeah, I would suggest a two year school right now, because it would get you out there around the peak of controller hiring. A four year degree however opens up a lot more opportunities if ATC doesn't work out, plus you can always get your masters degree later on.

rogersjf Trusted Contributor New Jersey

My prospective on everything is as follows;

I think the first question you need to ask yourself is if you want to be an ATC. From your post it does not sound like you want to take the time and money to maybe get accepted. If you want it go and seize it do not second guess yourself. With that being said if you do want it, use every road possible to get to your destination.

What the CTI schools i think forget to mention to candidates is that the FAA does not compare or look at if your have an associates or a bachelors. So indeed it can take you only 2 years to complete the required courses to get your recommendation for the school. I know Vaughn College has a 2 year associates in airport management, that is eligible for CTI (I am sure other schools have programs like this). If you have a degree I know vaughn has a fast track program (1 year) which i am currently enrolled in.

Also others mention that they need to add just one class to get the CTI recommendation, being i do not know what they already took. The CTI requires 3 courses to be eligible; Air Traffic Control I, Air Traffic Control II and Aviation Weather. Right now according to your dates you will be eligible for hire at some of the Peak rates according to the FAA hiring plan. Unless of corse the new numbers they come out with do not con-inside with your grad dates. Even so they will always need ATC's and if you are the right candidate they will hire you.

As ACTT said Pubnats hiring craze is coming to an end, the CTI numbers and graduates are catching up to the needs of the FAA. Plus saving them a boat load of money by CTI skipping the 8 week basic course. However if you really do want to be an ATC and you are quite sure the best advice i can give you is to do both. Get in to a 2 year CTI program and apply to any Pubnats that come out while you are in CTI. More then likely the amount of time it takes to get the next Pubnat and to get to selection panels you may be graduating CTI which then your selection panel can be changed from Pubnat to CTI.

If you want it go a get it, use every possible route to get to your goal..

Heck it took myself 7 years to figure out what i wanted to do i got a couple degrees on the way but 4 years is nothing, enjoy it your young have fun live...

My .02

ColtsATC Trusted Contributor Indy

It doesn't take any ability OR skill to be a supervisor. It takes skill to work traffic for 25 years.

Whirlybird19 Chief Editor Phoenix

I agree with all the $.02 being thrown around in here. Its not exactly set in stone when Pubnats will expire, but you would think it would be pretty soon. IMO pubnats were the solution to being behind on their projected hiring numbers and they needed to fill those spots with people while all the newly accredited CTI schools educate their first group of graduates. The CTI schools will soon be recommending 100's of graduates each semester...and with the projected decrease in hiring numbers its going to be even more competitive among the CTI graduates. Just something to think about...

So my advice. Go CTI, but also give it everything you got to be "well qualified." The competition is about to get pretty serious.