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  1. #11
    WatchThis's Avatar
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    I expect the unexpected. General Aviation is full of jack-assery.

  2. #12
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    When we have meetings with local pilots that's about the first thing we say. We do not expect or want you to maneuver yourself to enter the 45. As an approach controller I will simply tell an aircraft to make right/left traffic. If he's on the downwind leg he'll enter that, if he's closer to the base he'll just enter on an extended base. Last thing we want is an aircraft flying back against traffic just so he can enter on a 45. That's inefficient and with radar totally unnecessary. Even when I worked at GFK back in the day with no DBRITE they never ever entered on a 45. You go right to the downwind or base depending on where you were coming from.
    I do fly a V tail, have for the last 6 years. I had a 182 for 7 years prior to that.

  3. #13
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    funny because if the aircraft is closer to the base, it would make sense to say something like "enter left base runway 30 Left, square your base to a 2 mile final" or something like that. If they're closer to the departure end, you're right. As I recall it now, if we wanted an aircraft to enter from the 45 and they were at the dept. end, we'd say enter at the 45, but that was more of a way to establish sequencing. But it seems odd to say "make left traffic" if they're closer to the base leg. I'd say "enter left base".

  4. #14
    phillyman2633's Avatar
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by WatchThis View Post
    I expect the unexpected. General Aviation is full of jack-assery.
    Agreed...flight training with Riddle, flying out of KDAB, I'm used to lots of comm on the radios and practice very safety-conscious flying. I flew out of KWWD in Jersey one day and was doing some pattern work and there was a CJ inbound to land. As I was on downwind I watched the CJ make a long straight-in and as he was on short final, out of nowhere a Cub towing a banner overflew the airport at like 50 feet to drop his banner. He flew opposing traffic and made no radio calls. I'd say they probably came within 300 feet of each other, it was pretty tense for a couple of seconds. Very unprofessional and complete GA jackassery.

  5. #15
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by atcguruaf View Post
    But it seems odd to say "make left traffic" if they're closer to the base leg. I'd say "enter left base".
    It's more a reinforcement because I've seen it happen where a pilot on the right traffic side flew over the airport to go enter a 45 for left traffic because left traffic is standard at the vast majority of airports. We have parallels here(GFK too) and as a local controller you always run your patterns to the outside to keep traffic away from the other parallel.

  6. #16
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    Any and all of those scenarios could work. That's the joy (word used loosely) of working GA traffic at a vfr tower, every minute is different. Whether it be the direct downwind, base or 45 entry, put the plane where u need it. If pilots think every airport is going to be the same every time, their living a pipedream. That's why we have a job.

  7. #17
    The Heatles's Avatar
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    45 degree entry to midfield downwind is the standard pattern entry, even via the AIM. Our Local agreement with our approach control additionally specifies that this is how they will enter the VFR downwind. It gives the local controller the most options to sequence with pattern traffic. If no traffic is a factor then the a/c can be told to enter left/right base but they are initially sequenced to midfield downwind on a 45 degree entry. If there is traffic they can be told to enter departure end downwind, fly a wide downwind, proceed direct base, etc... lots of options.

    Left closed traffic approved is the initial approval for pattern work, enter downwind is used for airborne a/c inbound to the airport like mentioned above.

  8. #18
    Roddy_Piper's Avatar
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    Quote Originally Posted by atcguruaf View Post

    You fly a v-tail?
    ha ha. would make sense why he said what he did. or he may be a mooney pilot. either way, he played his hand by his handle. ha ha.

  9. #19
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    Re: Enter right downwind/base/etc...vs make right traffic

    make right traffic or enter right downwind ...

    who cares they are both the same. but my thought and 17 years flying experience would tell me you enter downwinds.

    So i say enter right downwind or enter right base for traffic coming from outside pattern. You enter legs of pattern.

  10. #20
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    Dont mean to call you out, but Enter Right/Left downwind is incorrect phraseology...

    7110.65
    3-10-1a

    Lists all the correct entry instructions..

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