Pay Scale "Issue"

belot64f Junior Member Endicott, NY

The AG pay grade after the Academy and before the first D level raise stays the same throughout the entire contract time period. No raises. So how does it help those like me at a facility with LOTS of Trainees backed up for at least a year or more that have to sit and wait for the Stage 3 and Dysim classes that have to get done BEFORE you can even start the OJT on position...and from there it another few months before the first level pay raise. How does that help those in my position with lots of debt from loans and car payments and bills and RENT IN NY ($$$$)? The reason is that ERAM is being started here. I don't get it. Someone explain to me and email me please?

ATCinWI Senior Member Illinois

Under the green book, the AG pay scale was $38,384, under the arbitrator's award, it is $37,070, or about $1300 per year less than under the green book. Under the arbitrator's award, my CPC pay is $52,469 next year, and $59,638 in 2011. Under the green book it would be $66,807.

You will probably not be on the AG scale still by the time you get to 2012. You're only out $1300 per year from the green book, which is much less than the $14,000 I'm out.

Your problem isn't the lack of raise for people on the AG band, it's the piss poor planning by the FAA in getting people in training at bigger facilities. If you aren't going to make it financially where you are now, seriously considering ERRing to a small facility, get checked out, then get a paid move back to the facility you're at now if you really want to be there. I quit the FAA and re-applied to get where I wanted to be. I had different reasons to leave my first facility, and it was risky, but don't let the FAA put your finances down the crapper; find a way to transfer or swap or something if you can't make it work.

Radium Epic Member SoCal Tracon

you can join the guard like ColtsATC and get deployed! Tho that prolly wont work. Guess its time for a roomate... or four

polo708 Epic Member tower

You are not useable. You want a pay raise for ripping strips all day?

The normal raise within the pay bands is something like 3-4% per year. At AG pay that would only come out to around $1200 a year if they had raises at AG. Once you move up to D1 you start at the bottom of that D1 band anyways. Get a certification before you start complaining, geez.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

my confusion is the fact that you knew you had student loans, bills, etc. You knew what the white book was, and took the job. Now you get a raise and complain that it's not sufficient? Join the club. Just don't let the 1440 hear you. They're really the ones that got screwed, and in my opinion, are the only ones with a true and honest RIGHT to complain. The rest of us should just be happy we have this job in the current economy. Yes, as a VRA, I would have liked to seen more, just like everyone else. Who doesn't want to get paid more for what we do? But I'm not complaining nor whining. I go to work every day with a big shit-eating grin, ready to train, ready to work. The only whining or complaining I think we should hear is from the 1440.

I understand your pain. I took a 30+K pay cut. But I did so knowingly. Get checked out before stirring any pots. Perhaps sell the computer you used to make your post, or disconnect the internet that you're paying for.

I don't know your current status, but if money is tight, the answer isn't to hold your hand out and whine about not getting paid enough. The answer is to tighten the belt. Eat PB & J everyday, ride a bike to work, or drive close enough to work then ride your bike to save on money for gas. Don't use the A/C as much...etc.

Again, I know it sucks, and I'm not trying to come off harsh, but I'm sure there are things that you can do to your lifestyle to make it work. In any case, good luck. Keep your nose in the books and your eyes on the scopes, you'll be checked out before you know it.

nycdude26 Junior Member

I want a pay raise in a reasonable amount of time. If the facility can't get their shit together and get developmentals in a class in a reasonable amount of time... they shouldn't be taking new hires, they should be sent to facilities that can accommodate them. There are many of us who are willing and eager to "get a certification" but these training departments are not putting us in classes at a reasonable rate.

So next time you hear a developmental bitch, stop and realize that we are just trying to get through the training program and get certified. Living on AG pay sucks with no light at the end of the tunnel. For my class, it will take well over a year of doing A side (which is a lot of nothing) until they can schedule us for a class.

So yeah I feel I do have a right to bitch about being stuck at AG (not having an opportunity to advance in my training, thus earning a raise). I pay union dues, so I will bitch when ever I feel like it to who ever will listen. I'm not a big complainer, but don't say I don't have a right to voice my concerns. Every union member (and every bargaining unit member for that matter) has a right to voice their opinion. You don't have to like it, but it's the truth.

polo708 Epic Member tower

You stand to make well over 100K when checked out, but you cant sacrafice for a year while in training, while you hold no certifications? No wonder people think controllers are cry babies... oh sorry, you arent a controller yet are you. No wonder people think ATC applicants are cry babies.

ask anyone to live off of 40-50K for a year or two in order to earn well over 100K after that and see how many bitch about it. Get off your high horse applicant.

nycdude26 Junior Member

Don't get me wrong, I can manage and will. It is just frustrating to see the lack of planning resulting in us just sitting around the control room doing nothing for over a year waiting just to START class. That's my real gripe. Anyone can relate to that.

And controllers ARE cry babies... it's not an illusion.

Not on a high horse man, but no one is going to tell me I can't share my opinion. Well you can, but I will anyway. It matters not I suppose, at my facility we are all treated with respect by CPCs. They realize we will be working along side them someday, and treat us accordingly... I guess when people hide behind the internet and its anonymity they feel empowered to talk down to people in ways they wouldn't in person. What ever pops your cork.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

now the argument about the training program is something I can understand and completely agree with. It's the whining and complaining about the pay for the AG scale that I disagree with.

Yes, in my opinion, as a developmental, we have a right to complain about the training program if it is not moving at a speed that would otherwise benefit the developmental. However, at the same time, you can put in a request for a lower level facility, say a level 8 or 9. It kind of ties into what ATCinWI was saying about getting qualified at a lower level facility, then moving up to the big boys. I could have very easily traded off my level 11 for a level 7 or 8, but I declined to do so because I knew I could make it work and I could handle being in a particular financial situation for about 1-2 years.

Your argument, nycdude, is valid because it relates to the slow training program of the FAA. The argument about pay, however, is invalid. Any developmental, including myself, would of course like to see more money. However we knew what the pay would be before taking the position. I am satisfied with my decision and will not complain about my pay, given that I had other options before accepting the position. We do, however, have a right to complain about training programs and delays.

For example, I have 8 years of experience, but for some reason they're making me take as long as the CTI's and OTS's. Reason being: If I get any sort of bump or advance in training, even though it's because of experience, the other trainees will cry foul, possibly file a complaint with NATCA, etc. It's happened. So the fix is to make everyone take as long as the slow guys/gals regardless of how much you bust your ass.

This saddens me that others would complain. What should occurr is the realization that, as a CTI/OTS, you lack the experience and therefore should be placed on the back burner until you put in your dues like everyone else.

My point? We all (myself included) need to just "shut up and color." You can complain to me all you want, it will not fall on deaf ears. But rather you would be preaching to the choir - a part of the choir that believes we just need to not complain, go to work, study, study some more, and then study even more.

Take it from someone who's been there before AND is currently there:

Training's a bitch. But the more vocal you are about it, the longer it takes. I've been on both sides of the coin and can honestly say that trainees should be seen and only heard when working position.

Good luck in your training. I know it sux. But keep your head up and keep pressing on. It'll be a struggle, but in the end, no one will be able to tell you that you didn't earn it or work for it. It'll all be worth it.

nycdude26 Junior Member

Yeah my complaint isn't with what the AG pay IS... it's with the fact we are essentially being held back from progressing in our training. I'm en route, so there really are not any lower level facilities we can transfer too. I didn't want a level 12 facility but these were the cards that were dealt to me, and switching to terminal was not an option. So, all I can do is hope for a miracle (ERAM is slowing us down even more now.....)

I wouldn't be upset if someone came into the facility at the same time as me who was a VRA (and VRA only, CTI's are equal to OTS in just about everyones book once you are at the facility) and they got certified faster... since they have worked live traffic before... it is understandable.

Now, if I have been at the facility for 9 months WAITING and a VRA shows up... should he get a class before me?? To that I would say NO. If it happened that way, we would never get to a class because every time a slot opened up the new VRA would get it and we would perpetually be getting bumped out of a class slot...