Understanding the New Seniority Rule..

rbrad Newcomer

If you have not heard (correct me if I am wrong), any person who was either a temp sup or permanent sup will come back to the floor with his/her new seniority starting at the point when the management position ended? This is retroactive to the forced whitebook...

WOW! Why would the union do this to so many people just trying to figure out what direction they want to go in their career?

Lets face it, ever since joining the the FAA in 2003 the union hasn't done a whole lot for me. I have the FAA lying to me about my pay raise (hired under the old contract, check out with the new), then the union doing something crazy like this... Who does this benefit?

oneatcer Rookie SA, TX

I hear the same thing. What irony; the green book and white book are exactly the same in regards to temp promotions. They are seemingly encouraged because of the language demanding immediate pay raises and the like. Then during the convention the gurus reverse course and punish all who took temp positions for whatever reason. Though as far as I can see the white book allows the union to change the seniority procedures once during the life of the contract, I also see some case law that doesn't allow the unions bylaws to be changed retroactively. This convention decision has ULP action written all over it. I have been a union member in good standing since I joined the FAA, continue to get a union pamphlet every month (even after I took a temp position), and get regular emails from the union, but not once have I heard of this pending action. Furthermore, the union is now limiting my right to promotion by punishing me for exploring, on a temporary basis, different options within the agency. My two cents worth anyway.

oneatcer

Mclaren99 Junior Member Southern Region CPC

Yes, this is very dumb. The union hasn't done much for me either. As a CPC I can gripe. The other dumb move is this stupid class action suit that would take our ability to earn credit hours away. I love credit, even if we only get 24 hours now. And where is my NATCA dues reimbursement that was supposed to come months ago. I could really use that money and I could really use the money I spend on dues.

Very aggravated right now. I just completed my self-assessment and when an incentive bonus bid comes out with a paid PCS move to a higher level facility I WILL bid on it. Its not "blood money"....its my money if I choose to take it. We've got senior controllers here leaving the union so it is not just the young guys that are fed up. And what if McCain wins??? Things will remain the same so you have to get your money where you can. I have a family and cannot risk them for shallow promises and dim hope. UUUUgggggHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JetJammer Newcomer

This is one of the best things to ever come out of a NATCA convention. If you have become a supe since 9/3/2006 you have helped the FAA enforce the IWR's on your fellow controllers. You have also gotten raises for doing little more than run a break list while your fellow controllers have gotten nothing but six day work weeks and more OJT duties. If you newbies out there think this amendment is dumb than in my opinion you think the IWR's are just fine and you are satisfied with your current pay.

JetJammer Newcomer

I believe the majority of the members agree with this ruling.

oneatcer Rookie SA, TX

Had the opportunity to submit an ammendment to what? The bylaws? The proposed new senority rule? How do you propose that a temporary supe, who was a member in good standing from the day he was hired, make an amendment to a change in bylaws? That being said, you're presupposing that everybody knew that this proposal was being forwarded. I heard rumors about the proposal two weeks before the convention, even though I've been getting NATCA newsletters since I hired on. Yes, I am a temp supe, and have been apologized to at least a half dozen times that "I'm sorry the union did this to you", just in the last two days. You see, I'm a controllers supervisor who thought I could make a difference because of past management incompetence. I've bent over backwards to keep controllers happy, while making sure the job gets done. And yes, the job involves more than just "run a breaklist". So in the end as it concerns me only, you as a union lost in two ways; I will persue every opportunity to become a permanent part of management because I'll be damned if my senority gets zeroed out while trying to help my fellow controllers. And, though I'll always be a controllers supervisor, the new temps will be even more hard nosed anti-union knowing what is in store for them. Regardless of my future, one thing is guaranteed, if I go back to the boards, the union will never get another dime of my money...and you'll still have to represent me...HAH!

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

Oneatcer,

We need more supes like you. Temp or permanent, it doesn't matter. If you are a controllers sup then we need u to be permanent. I've had 2 controllers sups since the IWR's and I can speak from experience that my attitude is completely different depending on the sup on duty.

I'm sorry to hear this new development. Maybe I'm naive, or just ignorant, but I thought it was always this way. My area had a controller that was a temp sup 6-7 years ago, before getting put back on the boards. He's almost as old as the Wright brothers yet still only about 5 people ahead of me in seniority. This makes me think it's not necessarily a new ruling, just one that's come to light with the droves of new temp sups.

I personally believe that seniority should be based on good time on the boards. I do believe that sup time should not count towards seniority if you go back to being a controller. However, I also don't believe you should go back to zero time. You should at least keep the XX amount of time you had before accepting the temp sup bid. That's just my opinion.

Thanks again oneatcer for being one of the ally sups. We need more like you!

MIAvectors Loving Life

Why does NATCA seem more and more un-friendly to its own lately?


So... seniority for what is reset? Seniority within the union or at your facility? What benefits does this give you over someone else?

Adam Unregistered

seniority means a lot....highest seniority allows you the first pick of regular days off for the year...it also allows you first pick at vacation leave.

natca just passed at this last convention that for example:

Jack - been a controller for 25 years but has been a sup (either temp or permanent) as of September 2006....but will quit being a sup and go back to the controller ranks in October of 2008.

Jill - been a controller for 3 months

As of last week, if both Jack and Jill were controllers...Jack has more seniority than Jill once Jack returns to being a controller in October 2008...He will have a total of 23 years seniority and Jill will only have 3 months.

Your seniority is time that you spent in the bargaining unit. The two years that Jack has been a supervisor does not count towards seniority time since he is no longer in the bargaining unit...that's why since he has been in the FAA for 25 years, since two of them were supervisor....he only has 23 years seniority.

Well...as of now with the new amendment natca passed....when Jack returns to the controller ranks in October of this year....even though he has 25 years total controlling...and 23 years total in the bargaining unit....his seniority date now starts over from the time he re-joined the bargaining unit...which means...he has 0 months of seniority.

So now Jill that has been an FAA employee for 3 months...she is an OTS hire that just checked into her facility, has more seniority that Jack that has put 25 years of his time into the FAA. So Jill gets first pick over Jack of days off and vacation leave.

Again...this amendment is retroactive to anyone that took a management position after the new work rules went into effect in Sep. of 2006....

MIAvectors Loving Life

nice... punishing those trying to help further their careers, and this a union rule? sounds like something straight out of the IWR's haha