Are we all just fooling ourselves??

fracguy Rookie

I know I am going to get flamed for all this but I feel it needs to be said.
I know that in the past there have been several OTS applicants who have been picked up but this was when there were less applicants overall and less CTI grads and VRA/RMC people. There has not been one confirmed job offer in the most recent panels to a PUBNAT 7 applicant with no VET pref and/or CTI. Not one straight off the street bonafide joe blow. Now I know that the people on SM only represent a small portion of applicants but it appears the odds are severely stacked against OTS people. Obviously it doesn't hurt to try and there are rumors of further panels next year and such but there are still some CTI people who have not gotten picked up (and may not) I am a recently furloughed pilot so I have way too much time on my hands but I see time and time again people in the PUBNAT 8 process worried about their geo prefs or when they will get to to the academy or if their 99 makes them more marketable than someone with a 94. The way the supply and demand seems to be shaking up OTS is a very long shot and we all may be wasting our time. Things have changed greatly since the earlier pubnats. Everyone is so optimistic on SM including telling all these people with Q scores that they have a chance or they should pick Alaska. I mean what is the most amount of people AK could really need. 50 or 100 over the next year. There are thousands of applicants with better scores or vet pref who would gladly pick Alaska. I am posting all this to say there are people who are sitting at home doing nothing hoping this will work out (myself included) but maybe we need a reality check. I guess if you really want it then the military or CTI school is the best bet. I really hope I am wrong about all this and that everybody OTS with no vet pref or CTI gets picked up and we can all sing around the fire together in OKC.

PS. I know everybody knows somebody who knows somebody who got picked up with a 70.4 but with 8000 or so applicants to pubnat 8 there are too many good scores out there now.

DODO_STNX Trusted Member Birmingham, Alabama

I sympathize with what u are saying, and if they don't hurry up and give me my class date I may be forced to pass my spot on .. The waiting game is really taking it's toll on me and my wife's personal lives... This whole process from getting hired to getting started is in some serious need of modification... Hang in there man.. And best of luck.. Hopefully we will all get what we want asap

flyingwriter Senior Member Niles, Michigan

If the FAA is no longer hiring OTS, then what is the point of even having PUBNATs?

fracguy Rookie

That is a good question. I believe it is difficult for them to predict when and how many current controllers will retire and difficult to predict the number of available CTI and VRA applicants that will be available and I am sure their staffing plans and the associated budget allocates a certain amount of OTS testing. They would rather have 10000 applicants and pick up 5 of them than need 500 and only have 200 to pick from. It is a huge waste of money but we are talking about the government. Even if somehow OKC could pump out 2000 controllers a year which is a high guess they could get by on CTI and VRA almost exclusively. You have 31 cti schools and even if they only graduate 30 students twice a year that is 1860 CTI applicants alone? Yes some of them won't pass or will be disqualified for whatever reason but when staffing call for 1200 a year and you grab up your VRA's some DOD guys and then some CTI's it leaves very little room for OTS hiring. Not saying impossible but just highly unlikely

flyingwriter Senior Member Niles, Michigan

Maybe I'm deceiving myself, but I have to think that the FAA has more sense than that. They obviously factored the CTI graduates into the hiring projections! If they knew they could get by on CTI, DOD, and VRA alone then I would think that they WOULD NOT ISSUE TWO PUBNATS. Especially considering the cost of testing thousands of applicants. It has to reach into the thousands if not millions of dollars. I know this administration is wasteful, but I would hope that they're not THAT wasteful (I KNOW that is wishful thinking!). Once again, you could be right, but I would really hope that they wouldn't put out a public announcement for NOTHING.

Also, from what I've heard from Aviation Careers (not that it means much), the remaining PUBNAT 7 applicants will be selected at the January panels, with PUBNAT 8 candidates being selected in April.

polo708 Epic Member tower

well, any projections that were made were before the new contract came out when VRA's wouldnt apply due to the reduced pay... now with better work conditions and pay controllers with prior experience are applying left and right and getting preference. Its sad to say but I believe that the new/better contract kinda screwed you OTS applicants. I have no proof and I havent "heard from anyone"... its just my personal opinion based off of what Ive seen recently. The FAA is jumping all over prior-military controllers.

Cirrus12 Epic Member So. NH

I'm not going to go and do any research, let's just assume that the the earlier post is accurate. The post said there are 31 CTI schools. When I started looking into CTI schools in 2003 there were 14. Let's also stick with 30 graduates twice a year. That comes out to over 1800 a year with more CTI school popping up.

cjad1987 Newcomer

I don't know if we are fooling ourselves or not.

I think the first step is not to allow yourself/ourselves to be fooled. I don't think any of us have a good handle on exactly how or why the FAA does things. If you want in OTS like me, you can only hope for a PUBNAT 9, do well on the test, talk to facilities and wait while you do something else for a living. If your not doing something else for a living, start trying now.

CTI grads have increased, undisputed. Likely more VRA's. The fact that they will be first considered is undisputed. I also think the fact that FAA is putting out PUBNATs means they have some intention of hiring OTS be it 1 or 5 or 100 or 200 people. Who knows. Like any employer, they want options and the more they have the better the quality of the employees they will ultimately hire in theory.

I'm really hoping I don't have to do CTI, I have a degree, don't need another expensive degree learning crap I already know but if PUBNAT 9 comes and goes for me without a TOL in a reasonable amount of time, I'm headed for a fast track CTI preferably online.

I think the moral of the story is don't put all your eggs in one basket (namely the PUBNAT basket) but there is no harm in trying as long as the basket exists.

There is some state called reality. We are all sometimes guilty of trying to bend it or twist it to suit ourselves but when you boil it down to the logical facts, it should not fool anybody. Reality seems to change fast with ATC hiring (ie from 2008 to now with PUBNAT hiring) but to me, the trend is alarming and I don't know if it will reverse or not. The data seem to answer "No".

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

stay positive guys. the FAA needs controllers. if they can't fill those spots with VRA or CTI applicants, then you guys will get your chance. there are many off the street people working the scopes and looking out tower windows right now. just because your not already there or may be on the back end of the hiring spree...doesn't mean you won't ever get hired.

stay positive and hope for the best. u may or may not be fooling yourselves, but why not hope for the best.

good luck

GeorgeM Trusted Member CO

There are now 31 CTI programs approved by the FAA. And probably more to come.

Approved Air Traffic - Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Schools