Failing the PV

Centerpuke Junior Member ZTL

He was probably a tower guy. I would imagine the scenario had a bit of weather off the departure end and maybe he assigned the VFR aircraft a heading that sent the aircraft close to it. That would be similar to a center person assigning an altitude to a VFR aircraft. VFR's are expected to do two things, "get in the way and stay VFR." I feel bad for him but the system works. After the alloted time at the academy, it is very evident who can make it and who can't. There are some that slip through the cracks but if he has what it takes to do the job, he WILL pass the second time.

TWRFLWR Newcomer

Academy is Class Delta airspace. You do not issue VFR headings in Class D. However, you can rest assured that there was more to the story than just issuing a VFR heading.

atcwife Newcomer

... ...

Shyu Senior Member www.stuckmic.com

Congrats, I wish both of you the best !

zippynisles Junior Member

vfr a heading?????? whisket tango foxtrot?? This is why the FAA sucks balls. I failed my first on en route wise, cause some ####head from ATL center said and I quote, " Great job catching all conflicts, but your awareness sucked." It's typical FAA stuff but they don't just bust you out in en route they give you a tower option if you want it.

guest Unregistered

Okay...I saw this post, I wanted to clarify everything for everyone. I know the person that gave the PV. This is what happened from the instructors point of view.

Scenario:

VFR Tower, Class Delta, with a D-BRITE

Landing 28L/R, there was an aircraft on final for 28L and one behind him on final for 28R, also there was an aircraft on a left base for 28L, and multiple aircraft waiting to depart RY16. The aircraft on final for 28L I believe said he was going around. The student told the aircraft to turn right heading 160...no altitude to maintain VFR at or below or anything. The aircraft starts to turn right heading 160. So picture the aircraft on short final to 28L doing a right 270 degree turn back to the south while another aircraft is on final for 28R and furthermore, another aircraft coming in on a left base to 28L. The aircraft conducting the 160 degree turn was in conflict with the aircraft on final for 28R and then became conflict for the aircraft on the left base for 28L, not to mention the aircraft that were delayed from departing RY16 while he was watching the situation unfold.

They don't teach you anything about vectoring at the academy for tower class and the guys instructor was actually bewildered that this guy gave the aircraft a vector.

A more simple instruction would have been to tell the aircraft to enter a left downwind to 28L and to follow the aircraft on a left base.

I believe the student was a CTI guy and was a rated pilot. The instructor told the student that he was doing too much work and needed to get back to the basics.

The guy that gave the PV explained to me that he does not want anyone to fail and hopes everyone the best of luck. He has plenty of experience in the FAA...he has never washed out anywhere, rated at two different centers, rated at an Up/Down facility, and a Class Bravo Tower. Now he is a supervisor. He failed two students of the many that he watched over the time he was there.

Again, the first post came from the wife of a student that obviously was upset about the situation and has no knowledge of atc and restating information from her husband that only has a few months of academy experience in the FAA. Anyone coming to OKC to do the PVs has plenty of experience and I'm sure knows how to do the job fine...and if nothing else, they know tons more than the students.

I do understand the flaw in the system...the FAA only has 36 days to train you to be a tower controller and the people coming from around the U.S. think you are expected to know everything. I think the main thing is to stick with the basics...that's all you need to know....don't try any of the maverick stuff that you don't need. Keep it simple.

The guy doing the PV said he also watched a student clear a cessna for departure and once he was 6000ft, cleared a 777 for takeoff right behind him. The guy doing the PV asked one of the instructors at the academy if they were taught this isn't the best idea...the instructor I believe stated that they don't teach that stuff, just the very basics.

Anyways, the guy doing the PV was just doing his job...he failed two people out of a whole bunch...some people are just going to freeze up on the PV and make a mistake...That's why they let you do it again....

He's a good guy, wants to see everyone succeed, definitely not a "jerk" or "prick."

I wish your husband the best of luck in the future!

killswitch Trusted Contributor Ohio

I lawl'ed!

Centerpuke Junior Member ZTL

haha, that is about the third time I have heard the parachute thing. That is pretty funny! I PV on Thursday (enroute) and if I get in a bind, I just might use it. Ill let you know.

Rosstafari Daaaang. /X

I'm glad this got posted up. There's two sides to every story, after all, and this is helpful to remember for those of us who are still waiting on our PVs... er... and our academy dates... and... uh... geographic preferences.

Max Power Senior Member

yes 6000 airborne and you sling your airliners into cessnas at the academy. One reason is probably limitations of the TSS(tower sim). It is difficult to get the TSS to accept a VFR turnout and at the academy you are tought how to run a simulator.

Its too bad he didnt say turn left 160, still not legal but wonder if he would have passed?