Failing the PV

krsmit0 · Posted: 01-04-2010, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbalunda

It's the same at the Academy. Pilots use charts, ATCers use maps. If you say you studied your chart they'll correct you....

thats funny, they keep correcting us when we say maps.

mbalunda · Posted: 01-04-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krsmit0

thats funny, they keep correcting us when we say maps.

In basics we looked at charts. At Stafford we learn a map. How far along are you?

krsmit0 · Posted: 01-04-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbalunda

In basics we looked at charts. At Stafford we learn a map. How far along are you?

Still basics

pjrm82 · Posted: 08-18-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest

Okay...I saw this post, I wanted to clarify everything for everyone. I know the person that gave the PV. This is what happened from the instructors point of view.

Scenario:

VFR Tower, Class Delta, with a D-BRITE

Landing 28L/R, there was an aircraft on final for 28L and one behind him on final for 28R, also there was an aircraft on a left base for 28L, and multiple aircraft waiting to depart RY16. The aircraft on final for 28L I believe said he was going around. The student told the aircraft to turn right heading 160...no altitude to maintain VFR at or below or anything. The aircraft starts to turn right heading 160. So picture the aircraft on short final to 28L doing a right 270 degree turn back to the south while another aircraft is on final for 28R and furthermore, another aircraft coming in on a left base to 28L. The aircraft conducting the 160 degree turn was in conflict with the aircraft on final for 28R and then became conflict for the aircraft on the left base for 28L, not to mention the aircraft that were delayed from departing RY16 while he was watching the situation unfold.

They don't teach you anything about vectoring at the academy for tower class and the guys instructor was actually bewildered that this guy gave the aircraft a vector.

A more simple instruction would have been to tell the aircraft to enter a left downwind to 28L and to follow the aircraft on a left base.

I believe the student was a CTI guy and was a rated pilot. The instructor told the student that he was doing too much work and needed to get back to the basics.

The guy that gave the PV explained to me that he does not want anyone to fail and hopes everyone the best of luck. He has plenty of experience in the FAA...he has never washed out anywhere, rated at two different centers, rated at an Up/Down facility, and a Class Bravo Tower. Now he is a supervisor. He failed two students of the many that he watched over the time he was there.

Again, the first post came from the wife of a student that obviously was upset about the situation and has no knowledge of atc and restating information from her husband that only has a few months of academy experience in the FAA. Anyone coming to OKC to do the PVs has plenty of experience and I'm sure knows how to do the job fine...and if nothing else, they know tons more than the students.

I do understand the flaw in the system...the FAA only has 36 days to train you to be a tower controller and the people coming from around the U.S. think you are expected to know everything. I think the main thing is to stick with the basics...that's all you need to know....don't try any of the maverick stuff that you don't need. Keep it simple.

The guy doing the PV said he also watched a student clear a cessna for departure and once he was 6000ft, cleared a 777 for takeoff right behind him. The guy doing the PV asked one of the instructors at the academy if they were taught this isn't the best idea...the instructor I believe stated that they don't teach that stuff, just the very basics.

Anyways, the guy doing the PV was just doing his job...he failed two people out of a whole bunch...some people are just going to freeze up on the PV and make a mistake...That's why they let you do it again....

He's a good guy, wants to see everyone succeed, definitely not a "jerk" or "prick."

I wish your husband the best of luck in the future!

Left closed traffic approved.... that's all he had to say

soonerkid · Posted: 11-13-2010, 11:21 AM

not all the evaluators know ALL the rules, they just know the ones that pertain to their airport. also keep in mind that most supes only do minimum time on position just to keep current. there was a guy in my class that had an evaluator tell him he almost failed because he launched a runway 16 departure when he still had time (something like 5-10 sec) left on his 3 minute timer....the only timer you have to worry about on a 16 departure is the 2 minute one. I believe that the faa should stop wasting money on flying evaluators in from all over the country to do those stupid meet and greets and evaluations and just take care of everything in house. once you get to your facility one of the first things they will tell you is to forget all the crap they taught you at the academy anyways.

having said that, the PV is NOT that hard....people just make it hard because they are so nervous. while we were all sitting around the last 2 days waiting to do our pv all people were talking about is who failed, what happened ect...which was ONLY making things worse...dont focus on why other people failed. just focus on YOU. Listen to some music (i was listening to ac/dc and eye of the tiger).

During the pv, I was standing around waiting for planes to call up and not talking more than i was talking and doing stuff. i looked at the time once at 9 minutes in, then the next thing i knew he was asking for a briefing. DONT try anything fancy on your pv....LOOK for the situations/conflicts they CREATE and FIX them. just because they have a whole bunch of new pv's now doesnt mean anything....they still present you with the same situations, just at different times, and with different call signs or a/c. KNOW your rules. Take control of the situation and look at it as a chance to show the evaluators what you have learned. They know you are nervous, they know you arent going to be perfect. They just want to see that you have the potential to do the job.

On ground, keep things moving. Help local when you can (tell a heavy to hold short of an intersection to let a large go by). LISTEN to read backs. BEFORE You ask for a runway crossing LOOK at the runway LOOK on final and LOOK at the brite, REPEAT...THENNNN ask for your crossing. I promise there will be plenty of time to get this done. DONT talk to local when they are doing something. Other than that its pretty easy.

On local, PRIORITIES are VERY important. If your priorities are where they should be you will have little to no problems. when you have a fast vfr guy call up who is set up to make a straight in for runway 28L take care of him. get him on the ground. the last thing you want is a super fast guy in the pattern with a really slow guy. look at your wake turbulence timer before you launch a 16 departure. and always ask yourself whats next, or what can i be doing to stay ahead. even if you arent doing something. dont forget to call traffic. somebody in my class failed just because they didnt exchange traffic between a 16 departure and a guy on a left downwind. say you have an IFR guy on a straight in for 28R who hasnt checked in yet, and a slow aircraft on left midfield downwind who is #1 for 28L. clear him to land and tell him about the traffic on final for 28R. then when the a/c on the right side checks in clear him to land and tell him about the guy on left downwind. instead of waiting to do both the calls at the same time. also, as a rule of thumb. you should take care of your touch and go a/c by midfield downwind. either clear them to land, extend downwind, make short approach ect....this saves you time because then the aircraft wont call you turning base, which if you have any conflicts will make it much more difficult to resolve once the a/c is base vs when they are still on the downwind. if you dont understand these basic principles by the time you are to the pv then i hate to say it but you are FUCKED

Muneco · Posted: 11-17-2010, 06:44 PM

2 guys failed EnRoute PV today. They were escorted out

j_time41 · Posted: 12-07-2010, 02:12 PM

aw thats rough. Do you not get a retake, or WAS that their retake??

MikeATC · Posted: 12-08-2010, 01:53 PM

The important thing to remember, never put off (issuing an instruction) what you can do now until later. Sometimes by waiting you will put yourself behind, then if you have to wait or prod for a needed readback or correct a bad readback you only end up further behind.

Timing is critical in ATC, just as much as good scanning technique.

jermscentral · Posted: 12-13-2010, 11:14 PM

Out of the 36 in our class and sister class, 3 didn't make it through the retake on local. No one busted ground.

Day 1: 2 of the 9 that ran local in our class busted.
Day 2: 6 of the 9 that ran local in our class busted. Of the two retakes from the day before, one passed, and the other was terminated.
Day 3: The six that busted on day two retook their local run, and four of them passed the retake. The other two were terminated.

The problems were varied and across the board; I got one that seemed really easy -- but I may have just been ahead and combined the transmissions that could be combined to the point that there was a lot of dead time. I made it through both unscathed, though there were definitely a couple of issues that might have failed me if I had another instructor. When folks say it's subjective, they're totally right.

Durden · Posted: 09-22-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jermscentral

Out of the 36 in our class and sister class, 3 didn't make it through the retake on local. No one busted ground.

Day 1: 2 of the 9 that ran local in our class busted.
Day 2: 6 of the 9 that ran local in our class busted. Of the two retakes from the day before, one passed, and the other was terminated.
Day 3: The six that busted on day two retook their local run, and four of them passed the retake. The other two were terminated.

The problems were varied and across the board; I got one that seemed really easy -- but I may have just been ahead and combined the transmissions that could be combined to the point that there was a lot of dead time. I made it through both unscathed, though there were definitely a couple of issues that might have failed me if I had another instructor. When folks say it's subjective, they're totally right.

could you ellaborate on the issues that might have failed you?