Heavy in the tower pattern

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

Every facility that I've worked at requires that Heavies be tagged up so that approach knows that there is a heavy in the pattern.

A small behind a heavy can provide his own visual seperation, but you as a controller can't.

Palaver,
You as a tower controller must ensure wake turbelence seperation between your pattern traffic and approach traffic unless the approach inbound is willing to maintain visual seperation.

In the situation where approach has them lined up on final, your only options are: To request that approach give you a spot to fit your heavy pattern traffic in between arrivals, or you will need to hand off the heavy to approach and have them sequence the heavy into the arrival stream.

Your options are limited when you have smalls and large's mixed finals and a heavy in the pattern.

TennATC Rookie Tennessee

At my facility we routinely have heavies in the pattern. They are tagged up and we just call down and get the sequencing sector to give us a sequence. It is then approaches responsibility to meet the wake turbulence seperation.

Wrooster Junior Member

Interesting TennATC, is your approach FAA or Mil. We do it the same way as MikeATC. As the tower has more control over where the A/C in the pattern turns base. I suppose as long as it's agreed where the whole is then the approach controller can assume the responsiblity.

The thing to remember is that Wake turbulence Sep isn't the same as radar sep which is why it is outlined in Chapter 2 not Chapter 5. Chapter 5 does state the exact milage but as stated in Chapter 2 it applies to all aircraft following a heavy.

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

Wrooster,
I didn't mention that if I as approach give you a slot for your heavy and you miss that slot but still try to jam him in and seperation is lost, you just may be the one that buys the deal. I've worked with a few individuals that you learned real quickly when they asked for a slot, to just say put him on me, I'll sequence the heavy.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

As a tower guy, we didn't let approach know we had a heavy. Instead, we mixed the heavy in with traffic on final. Granted, we had 3 parallels, but even with 1 runway, the wake turbulence separation on final was still required.

If we needed a hole, we'd ask for it, otherwise we'd typically get a guy about t6 mile final, and we'd call the traffic.

I know what you're thinking, "but even if the guy calls you at 6 miles, you still busted separation with a heavy on base".

We wouldn't let the heavy turn base until we got the traffic. Also, this was all dependent on what traffic was on final. If you're trying to split two cherokees with a heavy, should be just a timing issue (along with visual separation), if there's a cherokee followed by a citation on final, I'm going after the citation, etc.

I think in this particular instance, it's just important to work together with the approach facility. If they keep jamming you, then I'd hand off the heavy and let the pilot know of the situation. Hopefully, they can get you about 6-8 miles between each guy.

TennATC Rookie Tennessee

I work at a FAA up/down. We have heavy tankers that fly about everyday and they work with us pretty good. Everybody knows about where they are going to turn base, so you just call app., and say "sequence acid" and they say to run him or who to follow. its really better that way for us because we have 2 parallels closer than 2500' and it would be a guessing game when we are running visual approaches as to where approach is going to base or clear an aircraft.

AlphaAlpha Newcomer In the sand

if the heavy is behind the acft on final your good all day. if you want your heavy 1st and final 2nd...sep must be applied. to help you out ask the final controller to slow the final acft down and have your heavy pull a tight base turn. you can always issue a 360 on the downwind or send the heavy to initial...lots of options.

we all hate the breakout call...it's a pride thang

ShyFlyGuy Rookie TUL

Agree that if the AC maintaining Vis Sep has the ability to maneuver, and is able to maintain vis sep (not passing through cigs), no problems. Cannot use if following through clouds, unable to continue downwind (turn base at discretion, on IFR apch).

Thread Hijack - WT Question?
Heavy in L traffic am getting conflicting information on 2 or 3 min for full length Lg/Sm dept behind T&G Heavy. Being told it's 3 min unable to locate.
.65 5-9 says nothing about a full length behind INT dept and have been using 2 min (dept dept full length WT). Input?

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

Look in Chapter 3 Departure seperation section: From full length it is 2 minutes, from an intersection 3 minutes.

yankeeoscar Rookie KNEL

LMAO, yeah I remember that thread.