airboss Newcomer

Alright... IFR conditions, class c airspace:

You have a SVFR cessna inbound for landing and an IFR B737 on final. What is the minimum separation needed? My understanding is : 1 in 1 out. The cessna must be down prior to the B737 endering the class c airspace. As we all know the .65 isnt the clearest rulebook in the world. Help and references are appreciated.

FM_Weasel Senior Member

This should go in the Rules forum.

You can apply all normal radar IFR separation. 3 miles or 500ft below the IFR's assigned altitude. 1 in 1 out is probably referring to non radar procedures.

In a small Class D it might as well be 1 in 1 out since there's barely room to keep lateral with the arrival descending through the SVFR's altitude limit. Also, bear in mind that the SVFR may change altitudes or turn to remain clear of clouds, so separation based on vectors or observed altitude could be difficult/need to be monitored closely.

7-5-3. SEPARATION
a. Apply approved separation between:
1. SVFR aircraft.
2. SVFR aircraft and IFR aircraft.

NOTE
Approved separation between SVFR fixed-wing aircraft,
and between SVFR fixed-wing aircraft and IFR fixed-wing
aircraft, is prescribed in Chapter 6 and Chapter 7,
para7-5-4, Altitude Assignment. Radar vectors are
authorized as prescribed in para 5-6-1, Application,
subpara f.

5-6-1. APPLICATION
Vector aircraft:

a. In controlled airspace for separation, safety,
noise abatement, operational advantage, or when a
pilot requests. Allow aircraft operating on an RNAV
route to remain on their own navigation to the extent
possible.

c. At or above the MVA or the minimum IFR
altitude except as authorized for radar approaches,
special VFR, VFR operations, or by para 5-6-3,
Vectors Below Minimum Altitude.

NOTE
VFR aircraft not at an altitude assigned by ATC may be
vectored at any altitude. It is the responsibility of the pilot
to comply with the applicable parts of CFR Title 14.

f. Operating special VFR only within Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E surface areas.

7-5-4. ALTITUDE ASSIGNMENT
Do not assign a fixed altitude when applying vertical
separation, but clear the SVFR aircraft at or below an
altitude which is at least 500 feet below any
conflicting IFR traffic but not below the MSA
prescribed in 14 CFR Section 91.119.

djmodifyd Senior Member

3 miles or wake turbulence sep needed and 500ft

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

FM is correct again, and DJ is way wrong. In class C you have radar so you can use standard radar seperation, in Class D (normally a VFR Tower) it is one in and one out. Also you might find yourself with a SVFR doing touch and go's, in that case the SVFR acft. has to be on the ground prior to the IFR arrival (class D airspace).

djmodifyd Senior Member

lol...how am i way wrong when thats exactly what i said?

OzATC Newcomer Cheyenne, WY

Having this discussion today. As I read the above posts, I understand I can separate SVFR and SVFR/IFR aircraft by non-radar and altitude assigment. However, I dont see where it says 3 miles?

In 1-2-1 is says, “Approved separation” means separation in accordance with the applicable minima in this order.

That doesnt mean much as far as lateral separation requred for the listed.

Help?

mtlatc Site Editor In a bus down by the river!

Just say no to svfr.....