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  #1
BigWindy's Avatar
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BigWindy
Newcomer
Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 01:48 PM

May a US air traffic controller issue an approach clearance for an approach that primarily serves a closed runway?

Let me clarify:
Operation is in the US.
Operation is under FAR Part 91 and/or FAR Part 135.
The airport has more than one runway suitable for landing (for example, runway 18/36 and runway 12/30). Runway 18/36 is closed by NOTAM.
The only published IAP is RNAV (GPS) RWY 18. Circling/circle-to-land minima is published for this IAP.
An IFR flight plan will be filed and IMC conditions are expected enroute and at destination. However, forecast arrival weather is at or above circle-to-land minima.

I wish to file IFR with this airport as a destination and intend/expect to perform the RNAV (GPS) RWY 18, circle to land RWY 30 (the runways do not intersect). Upon arrival, may I expect this clearance?

I've been told that the air traffic controller may not approve/issue a clearance for an instrument approach in these circumstances. I've researched the Air Traffic Controller Handbook, but cannot find this example precisely. Any assistance (with reference, if possible) is appreciated.
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  #2
xxDYxx's Avatar
Offline
xxDYxx
Rookie
Florida (KPAM)
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 02:11 PM

There should be no problem with a circle to another runway. If the apporach has published circling then it is made to be able to land other runways than the one it is aligned to.

If the controller gives you problems just requst a Contact Approach. As long as there is a published and working approach into the airport (with a published missed), and at least 1 mile vis, then you can basically do whatever approach you want. Ideally; Fly the RNAV approach and proceed visually/circle whenever you like.
  #3
atcechob's Avatar
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atcechob
Rookie
Warrenton, va
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxDYxx View Post
There should be no problem with a circle to another runway. If the apporach has published circling then it is made to be able to land other runways than the one it is aligned to.

If the controller gives you problems just requst a Contact Approach. As long as there is a published and working approach into the airport (with a published missed), and at least 1 mile vis, then you can basically do whatever approach you want. Ideally; Fly the RNAV approach and proceed visually/circle whenever you like.

Is it wrong to suggest the Contact Approach to a pilot before they are airborne? Hmmm...
  #4
GLF5's Avatar
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GLF5
Senior Member
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by atcechob View Post
Is it wrong to suggest the Contact Approach to a pilot before they are airborne? Hmmm...
Don't suggest anything.
  #5
Offline
towerflower
Junior Member
Palm Coast, FL
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 04:56 PM

Big,

You didn't mention if the airport in question has a control tower, if it does then the circling approach can be used. This is the reference out the 7110.65.

4-8-6. CIRCLING APPROACH
a. Circling approach instructions may only be
given for aircraft landing at airports with operational
control towers.
b. Include in the approach clearance instructions
to circle to the runway in use if landing will be made
on a runway other than that aligned with the direction
of instrument approach. When the direction of the
circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is
required, state the direction (eight cardinal compass
points) and specify a left or right base/downwind leg
as appropriate.
PHRASEOLOGYCIRCLE
TO RUNWAY (number),
or
CIRCLE (direction using eight cardinal compass points)
OF THE AIRPORT/RUNWAY FOR A LEFT/RIGHT
BASE/DOWNWIND TO RUNWAY (number).
  #6
stasi2002's Avatar
Offline
stasi2002
Junior Member
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 05:37 PM

If i remember right i believe you could use a intrument approach to guide to the runway to either circle to land or side step to a parellel runway
  #7
SnowAviation
Senior Member
Escondido, CA
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 07:12 PM

Yes you can execute an approach to an airport that has a closed runway, obviously you can't land on the closed runway and if the airport only has one runway then you would be expected to miss but it's still legal.

There isn't any controller regulation prohibiting execution of approaches to closed runways. The military may have such regulations but not the FAA. I'm not sure how it works if the entire airport is notamed closed.

For example, what if you are flying a helicopter? You'd be landing on a helipad or a ramp anyway, if there are multiple runways you are better still. Even if the weather is below circling minima you can still execute the approach as long as you are operating under part 91. Part 121 operations can't and I suspect that part 135 can't either but under all circumstances it's up to the pilot to determine if he has the proper minimums for his situation , category and FAR part, to execute the approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by towerflower View Post
Big,

You didn't mention if the airport in question has a control tower, if it does then the circling approach can be used. This is the reference out the 7110.65.

4-8-6. CIRCLING APPROACH
a. Circling approach instructions may only be
given for aircraft landing at airports with operational
control towers.
b. Include in the approach clearance instructions
to circle to the runway in use if landing will be made
on a runway other than that aligned with the direction
of instrument approach. When the direction of the
circling maneuver in relation to the airport/runway is
required, state the direction (eight cardinal compass
points) and specify a left or right base/downwind leg
as appropriate.
PHRASEOLOGYCIRCLE
TO RUNWAY (number),
or
CIRCLE (direction using eight cardinal compass points)
OF THE AIRPORT/RUNWAY FOR A LEFT/RIGHT
BASE/DOWNWIND TO RUNWAY (number).
Tower, that paragraph only applies in the case of where you clear the aircraft for the approach and issue circiling instructions, if there is no tower then you can't issue the circling instructions because you don't know which runway is in use or favorable to the surface winds, but you can still issue the approach. If you couldn't then the thousands of non-towered airports across the nation without towers would be screwed.

No tower or tower closed: Cleared for VOR-A approach.
Tower: Cleard for VOR-A approach, circle to runway XX.
  #8
mikecoyne34's Avatar
Online
mikecoyne34
Trusted Contributor
BNA
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 08:55 PM

3-3-2. CLOSED/UNSAFE RUNWAY
INFORMATION
If an aircraft requests to takeoff, land, or
touch‐and‐go on a closed or unsafe runway, inform
the pilot the runway is closed or unsafe, and
a. If the pilot persists in his/her request, quote
him/her the appropriate parts of the NOTAM
applying to the runway and inform him/her that a
clearance cannot be issued.
b. Then, if the pilot insists and in your opinion the
intended operation would not adversely affect other
traffic, inform him/her that the operation will be at
his/her own risk.
PHRASEOLOGYRUNWAY
(runway number) CLOSED/UNSAFE.
If appropriate, (quote NOTAM information),
UNABLE TO ISSUE DEPARTURE/LANDING/TOUCHAND-
GO CLEARANCE.
DEPARTURE/LANDING/
  #9
atcpookie's Avatar
Online
atcpookie
Junior Member
FAA Headquarters, Washington, DC
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecoyne34 View Post
3-3-2. CLOSED/UNSAFE RUNWAY
INFORMATION
If an aircraft requests to takeoff, land, or
touch‐and‐go on a closed or unsafe runway, inform
the pilot the runway is closed or unsafe, and
a. If the pilot persists in his/her request, quote
him/her the appropriate parts of the NOTAM
applying to the runway and inform him/her that a
clearance cannot be issued.
b. Then, if the pilot insists and in your opinion the
intended operation would not adversely affect other
traffic, inform him/her that the operation will be at
his/her own risk.
PHRASEOLOGYRUNWAY
(runway number) CLOSED/UNSAFE.
If appropriate, (quote NOTAM information),
UNABLE TO ISSUE DEPARTURE/LANDING/TOUCHAND-
GO CLEARANCE.
DEPARTURE/LANDING/

That has nothing to do with an approach to the closed runway, just touching it.
  #10
stasi2002's Avatar
Offline
stasi2002
Junior Member
Re: Instrument Approach Clearance to a Closed Runway?
Posted: 02-23-2010, 09:58 PM

exactly and thats why they have low aprch's and if people working on the runway alt ristricted low aprch's

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