parallel rwy with heavy's

stasi2002 Junior Member

Am certified and you guys must not work heavy a/c in the pattern very often.....Have had several inspections and their is nothing wrong, at least in the air force environment, to have VFR Heavy aircraft use category sep. Thats how you keep aircraft tight.

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

in the Air Force, every base reg i've seen puts the wake turbulence separation upon the pilots...except for true departure/departure separation. i'm not talking option followed by an option being departure/departure, i'm talking 2 aircraft on the ground and waiting for takeoff.

polo708 Epic Member tower

no way... unless you are applying visual separation in the pattern there is no way you can only apply 6000 and airborne behind a heavy. No local reg, LOA or SOP is going to allow reduced WT separation behind a heavy. Sorry, I dont buy it.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

If you read the .65 you will see u are wrong. I was USAF and we broke rules like this all the time. Just because you work em, doesn't make you right. That's like me sayin I run red lights all the time, but no one's pulled me over and no crashes, so I must be right. All I ask is that u read it again, u may be surprised. This also could be a major bullet for u on your EPR if you make changes... think about it.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

3-9-7. WAKE TURBULENCE SEPARATION FOR INTERSECTION DEPARTURES

a. Apply the following wake turbulence criteria for intersection departures:

2. Separate any aircraft taking off from an intersection on the same runway (same or opposite direction takeoff), parallel runways separated by less than 2,500 feet, and parallel runways separated by less than 2,500 feet with runway thresholds offset by 500 feet or more, by ensuring that the aircraft does not start takeoff roll until at least 3 minutes after a heavy aircraft/B757 has taken off.

NOTE-
Aircraft conducting touch‐and‐go and stop‐and‐go operations are considered to be departing from an intersection.


3-8-2. TOUCH‐AND‐GO OR STOP‐AND‐GO OR LOW APPROACH

Consider an aircraft cleared for touch‐and‐go, stop‐and‐go, or low approach as an arriving aircraft until it touches down (for touch‐and‐go), or makes a complete stop (for stop‐and‐go), or crosses the landing threshold (for low approach), and thereafter as a departing aircraft.


Given the information above, in the note, it clearly states that aircraft that are touch-and-go/stop-and-go are to be considered intersection departures. Given that information, you must apply intersection departure rules.

For the low approach, it states to consider them an arrival until it crosses the threshold, thereafter as a departure. So, you must apply the 2 minute rule.


Also, here's how I read 3-9-7, b4:

4. Successive touch‐and‐go and stop‐and‐go operations are conducted with any aircraft following a heavy aircraft/B757 in the pattern, or heavy aircraft/B757 departing the same runway, provided the pilot of the aircraft is maintaining visual separation/spacing behind the preceding heavy aircraft/B757. Issue a wake turbulence cautionary advisory and the position of the heavy aircraft/B757.

I read "successive touch-and-go and stop-and-go operations...in the pattern" as if there are 2 in the pattern, and you have one on left downwind, and one on right downwind, since they'll be a factor for each other when they turn final, I consider that sufficient to apply the "following a heavy in the pattern", ere go apply visual separation and you're good... not simply just for the same runway.

If clarification is requested, let me know, because I know it can seem a little "ramblish." AT MINIMUM though, Stasi is wrong. Don't get in a huffy about it and talk about how many heavies you work, just read the book and come out w/ your own arguments that make sense. But as you can see, no one is agreeing with you.

pigbenis Rookie

ok let me give a response that can be understood by everyone with very little reading and citing since this is a very simple question, and the citing has already been posted above.

did everyone forget that you are supposed to treat these runways as 1? yes you can use visual to side step the 3 minute rule, but since they are separated by less than 2500 feet you still need same runway separation. so 6k/airborne with visual to sidestep the 3 minutes or 6k airborne and 3 minutes.

Max561 Rookie Tampa

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