RWY suspended/closed lighting

Can you tell me where find the regulations that states, if a runway or taxiway is closed the lights to that runway or taxiway shall be turned off.

And, if the runway is suspended are the lights to that runway also to be turned off?
Or, are they left on because that runway is still usable for restricted low approaches, approaches with a side step to land on another runway and circling approaches as well.

True or false: A suspended runway is not a runway in use.

This came up when the LC turned off the PAPI's to a NOTAM suspended runway. We have parallel runways and LC stated that the runway was not currently used for approaches.

Thanks

Ok, it appears that I answered part of my own question.

Definition:
Runway in use - Any runway or runways currently being used for takeoff or landing.
Landing - an act or process of one that lands; going or bringing to a surface
Takeoff - a spot at which one takes off; a starting point : point of departure
Arriving - to reach a destination
Departure - the act or an instance of departing; a setting out (as on a new course)

So, we are authorized restricted low approaches to a suspended runway. A low approach is a landing/arriving aircraft until it crosses the landing threshold and then becomes a takeoff/departing aircraft. And by definition a suspended runway is a runway in use. The .65 states PAPI's shall be operated when they serve the runway in use.

Do you agree?

Um... yes? LOL

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TB

maybe i'm missing something. what is a suspended runway? i don't really find a reference to that term in the .65. are you currently military and are talking about runway ops being suspended after an emergency lands? that kind of suspended runway? because runway ops being suspended is completely different than a closed runway. only the airport manager can close a runway, but controllers can suspend operations to an open runway in the interest of safety. what is a NOTAM'd suspended runway? you surely must be talking about a closed runway correct? or are you referring to a runway that is clearly unusable but the airport manager is not around to officially close it so your calling it suspended for safety reasons.

wow. no kidding, i can't find it either. was sure it was in the .65. maybe i'm more tired than i thought.

There's three things we need to come to an agreement on about runways
1. It is either closed or open...as determined by the airport manager
2. It is either active or inactive (in use or not in use if u prefer that definition instead)...as determined by the CIC or WS/SC.
3. There is no such thing as a suspended runway, just runway operations being suspended to an open runway...as determined by the LC (could be dictated by CIC or WS/SC)

false. see above. an entire runway does not necessarily have to be closed. there are times when a runway is both open and closed. there could be a perfectly usuable portion, but clearly unusable for another portion. ie. construction on the first 2000 feet of the runway only suspends operations for that closed portion. the rest of it may be used for departures from an intersection downfield, provided the airport manager has not deemed the runway closed and has specifically allowed such an operation. in this case you would not want to allow arrivals unless the runway threshold is displaced...way above the worker bees pay grade. it's for the ATM, airport manager, and the FAA to decide.

This is from the 7210.3:

10-6-6. PRECISION APPROACH PATH INDICATOR (PAPI) SYSTEMS

a. The basic FAA standard for PAPI systems permit independent operation by means of a photoelectric device. This system has no remote monitor and no on-off control feature. It is intended for continuous operation.

b. Other PAPI systems in use include the following:

1. The basic PAPI system as described in subpara a, except at locations where the system was installed with an on-off remote switch in the control tower. If an on-off switch is provided, it is intended that the PAPI be operated on a continuous basis when the runway it serves is in use.

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geez thought i was going crazy.

7110.65 3-4-10

e.Do not turn on the runway edge lights when a
NOTAM closing the runway is in effect.

could not find anywhere that talks about taxiway lights having to be off when taxiway is closed.

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Yes, I am in the Military. The runway operations was NOTAM (Notice to Airman) suspended for construction on the taxiway that intersected the runway. A NOTAM is a notice that the airport manager sends out to advice pilots of the airfield conditions (NAVAID OTS, construction on the airfield, lights OTS…ect)

The NOTAM was sent out to advice pilots of the suspension and if they wanted to land on the runway tower needed a 45 minute call to get the vehicles off and ensure the runway was FOD free.

Yes, I agree that the runway is open or closed, active or inactive. And, that there is no such thing as a suspended runway, just operations being suspended to an open runway...sorry I was confusing.

This is some good stuff…I’m the certifier/evaluator for the tower I work at and the WS got written up for turning off the PAPI’s. He even started to get me to think I made a mistake. But, it all came back; open or closed. I hate calling my friends out but it’s my job, until I take off the bad guy hat.

Wow, a TSN with some guts. Kudos AlphaAlpha. My experience has been the TSN usually looks the other way when buddies are involved.

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