IFR in the traffic pattern

Yes, BUT, at an airport it's not that simple, where exactly, is the clearance limit? When they contact the tower, when they enter the airspace, when they cross the IAF, FAF, runway threshold, land with mains, land with nose gear down, taxi clear of the runway, reach the gate?

Obviously the answer is they are IFR until they land, and the flight is terminated, same as what's found in 7110.65 4-8-11 regarding IFR practice approaches. Unless someone wants to actually try to claim that an IFR practice approach gets IFR separation to the ground, but other IFR operations end IFR at some assumed clearance limit that can't be defined.

this is impossible. if your on an ILS, how are u getting to a different runway and somehow completing a touch and go, then somehow getting back to the MAP for the ILS to the runway you were originally cleared for. in order to do a touch and go on another runway you need to get below DH. how are you getting below DH to do a touch and go on a runway that you were not cleared for in the approach clearance. i'm not talking landing clearance.

IFR ILS 36L lands on 36L. or LEGALLY does a circle to another runway. if they don't land on 36L (or circling runway) then they go missed and execute the missed approach. if they don't want to do the missed approach and would rather just make closed traffic for some touch and gos then you query his IFR to VFR status. if he says he WILL NOT be canceling then he goes missed approach. if he say he WILL be canceling then you allow him closed traffic, traffic permitting, for his requested touch and go.

do not allow an aircraft to be on an IFR instrument approach and then tool around in your VFR pattern while they are still IFR. it is illegal.

lawngnome shared an instance in which he did it. i see the angle he played and would agree with the way he did it. he essentially played the visual approach game even though the aircraft was IFR. but, if your at a class D, i don't suggest you start messing around with big airport type stuff.

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I don't write the rules, just TRY* to make sense of them.

I agree with everything you said 100%.

The problem is, there is that stupid note, which clearly says that the IFR pilots are required to adjust their flight path to enter a traffic pattern with VFR traffic.

I didn't put that note in there...

Now if it said, IFR on a visual approach have to adjust flight path, ok then, but it doesn't. It says IFR, and does not differentiate what approach they are on.

Wouldn't it go something like this, "November so an so, understand cancelling IFR, cleared for left base".

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PATCO Member www.patco81.com

Sure something like that, so long as you get the cancellation, I agree.

clearance limit at the airport is a successful landing. when all the wheels are on the ground and the aircraft is at a speed that permits them to taxi off the runway then they have successfully completed their flight to the destination.

why would the clearance limit only be the FAF or something like that. aircraft are usually cleared to XYZ AIRPORT as filed (or whatever), not cleared to SNOWL FAF as filed.

on any approach, IFR aircraft are expected to adjust their approach for other aircraft, whether or not the other aircraft is IFR or VFR.

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Again I agree 100%.

The only remaining item Roddy, how do they adjust their flight path without deviating from the published approach course? If they are legit when deviating from the approach course to avoid other aircraft, why can't they do that in the pattern?

Here's how I deal go arounds and closed traffic,

If they are IFR on and instrument approach in VMC, and they request a touch and go before going MA or on to their next destination, I almost always clear them for the visual approach first, then notify the appropriate approach sector, and finally move them to whatever runway they want or is needed, if other than the one aligned with the procedure...

If it's a go around, I ask them, do you want to stay in the pattern VFR or execute the published missed approach...If they say they want to stay in the pattern, I say, cancellation received, maintain VFR, and then give them further instructions as needed.

The whole point of this thread was to get input from people who see it the other way, and answers to how they deal with the questions I posted. There are many who believe that in VMC, you can do whatever you want.

SO to those out there who disagree with me and Roddy, can you please try to address some or all of the questions in the original post.