Separation b/w IFR and VFR Practice Approach aircraft

ATCs1222 Junior Member Brooklyn, NY

Hello SM

I appreciate it if anyone can clarify a few questions for me regarding separation requiremnts for VFR aircraft requesting practice approach. I don't know if i'm reading the last sentence correctly, 7110 says:

"Where procedures require application of IFR separation to VFR aircraft practicing instrument approaches, standard IFR separation in accordance with Chapter 3, Chapter 4, Chapter 5, Chapter 6, and Chapter 7 must be provided. Controller responsibility for separation begins at the point where the approach clearance becomes effective. Except for heavy aircraft/B757, 500 feet vertical separation may be applied between VFR aircraft and between a VFR and an IFR aircraft."

My understand is once the approach clearance has been given, except for Heavy/B757 i can use 500 ft vertical sep between the practice approach aircraft (which i'm providing standard IFR sep to) and a VFR aircraft, but i still need 1000 ft or 3 miles between the practice approach aircraft and a IFR aircraft, am i reading this correctly?? The last sentence just didn't make sense to me. thank you..

mrtblount Newcomer

You can still use 500 ft. vertical separation but once you clear for the approach you have to use 3 miles basically the "green-in-between" rule is out the window.

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

what class of airspace are we talking? B? C? E? (or even D i suppose?). is there an LOA between the ATC facility and the aircraft being worked (possibly a flight school)?

without knowing these answers...in general it's still just VFR separation unless something changes. like class of airspace or LOA agreeing to some sort of separation minima.

"practice approach approved, no separation services provided, maintain VFR"

sleepy Rookie

it should make more sense if you break it down like this.


500 feet vertical separation may be applied

between VFR aircraft
(VFR to VFR, 500 feet vertical may be applied)

and

between a VFR and an IFR aircraft.
(VFR to IFR, 500 feet vertical may be applied)

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

ATC you interpret it correctly, basically once you clear the VFR acft for the approach you should consider it IFR, the only excemption is you can tell the aircraft that IFR seperation will not be provided, maintain VFR in which case you can then still provide VFR seperation, that is unless your management did something stupid and published a letter stating that IFR seperation will be provided to all practice approaches.

j_time41 Trusted Contributor Fargo, ND

sleppy is correct.
Except he just forgot to put the Heavy/ B757 exemtion in there. (still need 1000 vertical sep)

ATCs1222, the rule only applies to VFR practice approaches between other VFR practice approaches OR IFR traffic.

If the acrft if doing prac. approached IFR, you cannot use the 500 ft. rule between other IFRs.

Hope this helps, I just said what sleepy did in a different way

ATCs1222 Junior Member Brooklyn, NY

Haha, Yup is in our SOP to provide IFR sep to practice approach aircraft. Thank you for your reply.

Radium Epic Member

annoying right? On one apt, I can have 3 cessnas within like 2 miles, and the other one the vfr needs 3 miles behind the a/c in front of it :/

RiderVectors Newcomer

Certain facilities require you to give VFR practice approaches IFR separation. Some places require you to give VFR aircraft other types of separation like 1.5NM in class B and target resolution in TRSA and class C airspace. It's hard to answer your question with so little information. It depends on the rules that are required at your specific location. So to say it in a complicated way, a VFR aircraft on a practice approach needs no separation services unless it's required in your facility directives, in which case you won't say no separation services provided in the approach CLNC.

In cases where you have to give VFR practice approaches IFR separation then you give them that separation EXCEPT 500ft vertical separation can be used in lieu of 1000ft when the other aircraft isn't a Heavy/B757. That 500ft vertical separation is used between your VFR practice approach and any other IFR SVFR aircraft. The other VFR aircraft flying near your practice approach need only normal VFR separation, whatever that may be.

FM_Weasel Trusted Contributor

To determine your facility's exact requirements, consider airspace requirements plus local directives.

The 7210.3 specifies how facilities designate which airports receive VFR practice approach separation services and which ones don't. The primary airport served by the approach control must offer separation for VFR practice instrument approach aircraft.

The rest of 10-4-5 explains further requirements for determining which other airports shall receive separation and which won't. I emphasize this because I've heard folks imply that there's some controller discretion involved. There isn't. Your facility will determine which airports are provided this service, and which ones are not, and it will include a list of these facilities in a "Letter to Airmen." Your facility should have a copy somewhere within the operational area though it may not always be easy to find.