ATSAP - whats your take?

Towerboss Future Former Controller Houston, Texas

Ummm coffee!

JettGreen Newcomer Dayton Ohio

Towerboss,

I'm a little late to the dance, but I'm just curious how the ATSAP training/program is fairing in the FAA? The DoD hasn't gotten on-board with ATSAP yet, but I'm sure they will at some point. Eurocontrol was on the leading edge with their own program 'Just Cultutre'. According to my Euro controller buddies, it's been very successful. Although, they do operate in more of a judicially reactive environment were the local prosecutor can have immediate access to the 'tapes' if he believes negligence was involved. Hopefully, that wont be the case with ATSAP, although, I'm not sure I'd want the limelight (grin).

Towerboss Future Former Controller Houston, Texas

I wont know much about the program until after tomorrow.

PorkBarrel Rookie Arlington, TX

So any news or updates about what they talked about in the class?


EDIT: I just noticed Lawngnome's thread about ATSAP in Useful ATC info, but I'm also curious to hear about Q&A brought up in the class about the program, if any. Thanks!

Towerboss Future Former Controller Houston, Texas

I am still neutral about the program.

Adam Unregistered

The only way I see myself reporting something is if QA comes to me and tells me I had a deal....then I will call that number and go online and file a report. I probably won't voluntarily admit a deal unless they can prove I knew about it and didn't say anything...but it is hard for them to prove you actually knew you had a deal.

ATCtower Epic Member

I for the most part agree... This could however provide a good opportunity if you do know you had a deal, to go on the record and perhaps brush up on something that may have become routine to you. I have been a pilot for years and never had to file a NASA report but have always been told in the case of any incident, this is the best way to save your ticket. As far as I know, this prevents most action against your certificate but it is not a free ride out. The insurance companies still know there was an accident/incident, your flight club still knows, and so does the FAA. Your insurance company and flight club would likely still require a skills check or something of the sort. If this holds true within the ATC world, I would find the ATSAP a valuable tool, not only to save your ass but also to advance training where needed. We all need to remember, having a deal doesnt just suck for us, but can be a catastrophe for a couple aircraft and the hundreds of people aboard them. I feel that any opportunity for advancement in training is greatly beneficial, whether we, as controllers or pilots, feel we need it.

My $.02

photostarr Junior Member

An old thread rises from the dead.

I recently sat in on a briefing about ATSAP and was very interested. From what I understood, if you have a deal and it is "unknown" to your supervisor or anyone but yourself, and you report it, the ATSAP reps in the local area are careful not to ask stupid questions that might indicate your involvement. i.e. They're not going to say, "Let me have the tapes for sector 3 from 3:00-4:00." Any dummy could just look and see who was working the sector during that time and figure who had the issue. What the ATSAP reps will do, hopefully of course, is ask for the tapes for two or three different sectors (including sector 3 where the deal happened) from Tues-Sat. Muddles the waters a bit.

Anyone else go to one of the meetings and hear some similar things?

ATCinWI Senior Member Illinois

They don't necessarily always check the tapes or radar data . . . I am aware of an instance at a facility where the controller filled out an ATSAP and heard back within a day or two that the issue was closed.

I am all for ATSAP, but I would recommend filling out a NASA form as well as do an ATSAP. ATSAP doesn't protect your CTO or Radar Cert (but a NASA form does), and technically AOV could take those certs away if they found out about the deal through another source (random audit, etc...) even if you couldn't be punished through your management in the ATO.

miker1369 Newcomer Atlanta, GA

I would still file both as well, eventually the ATSAP website will actually file a NASA report for you, but its not doing this yet. However, just to clarify according to the MOU, For a report accepted under this ATSAP MOU, the Air Traffic Safety Oversight Service (AOV) will use lesser action or no action, AOV is a party to the MOU, if its an accepted report, there will be nothing done with your qualifications, unless the ERC were to make that determination.

https://atsapsafety.com/miscellaneou...atsapcid=14977