wake turbulence separation for touch-n-go

i am at a new tower and i have rased a question. i think there are two ways to answer this but everyone in the new tower says there is only one way.

First see 7110.65 3-9-7 b 3.


Can I say to a c-172 requesting touch-n-go:

N123 traffic is a c130 departing rwy 1. {N123 traffic in sight} N123 caution wake turbulence, c130 departing rwy 1 base turn your discrestion rwy 1 cleared for the option.

or is this the one and only way

N123 traffic is a c130 departing rwy 1. {N123 traffic in sight} N123 maintain visual separation, caution wake turbulence, c130 departing rwy 1 cleared for the option.

I'll take a stab at this, too...

You said the C-172 is requesting a T/G, meaning he will be an "intersection" departure, so you need to apply the rules (as you said) in 3-9-7. That being the case, para 3 of that paragraph states:

"3. Successive touch-and-go and stop-and-go operations are conducted with a small aircraft following another small aircraft weighing more than 12,500 lbs. or a large aircraft in the pattern, or a small aircraft weighing more than 12,500 lbs. or a large aircraft departing the same runway, provided the pilot of the small aircraft is maintaining visual separation/spacing behind the preceding large aircraft. Issue a wake turbulence cautionary advisory and the position of the large aircraft. "

With the highlighted part, the pilot of the C-172 would have to apply visual separation between him and the C-130. In my mind you would then need to apply the rules in 7-2-1 Visual Separation, specifically a. 3 (a-c).

So, the correct phraseology, would be....

"N12345 traffic C-130 departing runway 1"

{N345 traffic insight}

"N345 maintain visual separation, caution wake turbulence c-130 departing runway 1, runway 1 cleared touch and go."

thanks for your reply. the real question then is does the / in "provided the pilot of the small aircraft is maintaining visual separation/spacing behind the preceding large aircraft" say and, or ?
I say if it does, then there are two ways one can comply with the paragraph.

We use vis. separation here so I think it goes hand in hand. If you need a pilot(s) to maintain sep or clearing for takeoff, you need to state "maintain vis. sep. between you and that a/c". If you don't say it the separtion is on you.Yes I have been through the tower before so I know a bit about this side

I don't think you are allowed to use visual separation in lieu of wake turbulence separation. Don't have a .65 here to get the reference though.

you as a tower guy cannot provide wake turbulence visual separation between two a/c...I don't believe the FAA has approved the wake turbulence glasses that oakley came out with last year...but you can tell an a/c to maintain visual from another a/c and caution wake turbulence.

__________________
Your friendly neighborhood Lawn Gnome

the problem with the oakley wake turbulance glasses is that they only come with the polarized lenses. Oakley is presently trying to create a lens that can stop wake turbulance but is also not polarized. I believe that model is set to release first quarter of fy 3010. I may be wrong though.

AW

Ok, a more specific answer.....

3-9-7 b:

b. The 3-minute interval is not required when:

1. A pilot has initiated a request to deviate from that interval unless the preceding departing aircraft is a heavy aircraft/B757.

NOTE-
A request for takeoff does not initiate a waiver request; the request for takeoff must be accomplished by a request to deviate from the 3-minute interval.

2. USA NOT APPLICABLE. The intersection is 500 feet or less from the departure point of the preceding aircraft and both aircraft are taking off in the same direction.

3. Successive touch-and-go and stop-and-go operations are conducted with a small aircraft following another small aircraft weighing more than 12,500 lbs. or a large aircraft in the pattern, or a small aircraft weighing more than 12,500 lbs. or a large aircraft departing the same runway, provided the pilot of the small aircraft is maintaining visual separation/spacing behind the preceding large aircraft. Issue a wake turbulence cautionary advisory and the position of the large aircraft.

Since the paragraph states "provided the pilot of the small aircraft is maintaining visual separation/spacing behind the preceding large aircraft" we need to use the rules in Visual Separation.

7-2-1 a:

a. TERMINAL. Visual separation may be applied between aircraft under the control of the same facility within the terminal area up to but not including FL 180, provided:

1. Communication is maintained with at least one of the aircraft involved or the capability to communicate immediately as prescribed in para 3-9-3, Departure Control Instructions, subpara a2 is available, and:

2. The aircraft are visually observed by the tower and visual separation is maintained between the aircraft by the tower. The tower shall not provide visual separation between aircraft when wake turbulence separation is required or when the lead aircraft is a B757.

*The tower in our example is not providing the visual separation, the pilot is.*

3. A pilot sees another aircraft and is instructed to maintain visual separation from the aircraft as follows:

(a) Tell the pilot about the other aircraft including position, direction and, unless it is obvious, the other aircraft's intention.

(b) Obtain acknowledgment from the pilot that the other aircraft is in sight.

(c) Instruct the pilot to maintain visual separation from that aircraft.

(d) Advise the pilot if the radar targets appear likely to converge.



So all this being said, the phraseology would be:

"N12345 traffic C-130 departing runway 1."

{N345 traffic in sight}

"N345 maintain visual separation, caution wake turbulence C-130 departing runway 1, runway 1 cleared T/G."

and By the way, I have the new Oakley's and they suck.

I agree as a 10 year tower controller:

"N12345 traffic C-130 departing runway 1."

{N345 traffic in sight}

"N345 maintain visual separation, caution wake turbulence C-130 departing runway 1, runway 1 cleared T/G."

__________________
~controller since 99'

DOD_ATC and ATC@ZID are 100% correct.