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  #31
joecoolinsc's Avatar
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joecoolinsc
Rookie
Spartanburg, SC
Re: VFR-On-Top Procedures
Posted: 07-06-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATCinWI View Post
Hmm, you better call AOV on SoCal TRACON and SMO Tower. The LOA between SCT and SMO says that aircraft requesting an IFR to VFR-on-top shall be instructed to "report reaching VFR conditions on top and cancelling IFR" during clearance delivery. I'm sure it's that way with many other LOAs and SOPs, but SMO was the only tower in SoCal that I worked at.
As I've stated earlier in this topic, an aircraft requesting a short range IFR clearance to reach VFR conditions and cancel is in a class by itself. If you believe this to be the pilot's intent, treat it accordingly.

The terminology OTP is getting interchanged and muddying the waters, what's important is to determine the pilot's intent.

Quote:
7-3-1. VFR-ON-TOP

a. You may clear an aircraft to maintain "VFR-on-top" if the pilot of an aircraft on an IFR flight plan requests the clearance.
Nowhere else in the section does it say anything about getting a cancellation, because it's not required or even implied.

The fact is, if the aircraft cancels IFR it's just plain VFR (and maybe not on a flight plan at all). The whole point of "VFR-On-Top" is to allow an aircraft to retain it's IFR flight plan, operate in VFR conditions and separate himself. Operating on the IFR flight plan still provides for search and rescue, and possible resumption of IFR separation if weather deteriorates etc
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  #32
Chunker's Avatar
Offline
Chunker
Newcomer
Re: VFR-On-Top Procedures
Posted: 07-07-2009, 09:36 PM

VFR on Top is a great but confusing topic, the a/c is always on an IFR Flt Plan, they must be on the pref rtes and be sequenced with other IFR traffic going to any major or minor airport during a push. The only diff is the a/c when on top may be separated by 500 ft, not 1000. The pilot just wants to stay above the clouds etc, when you descend them you must use IFR seperation. You can not say report cnx IFR....that as explained before is soliciting...
  #33
ATCinWI's Avatar
Offline
ATCinWI
Senior Member
Illinois
Re: VFR-On-Top Procedures
Posted: 07-07-2009, 10:10 PM

Man, I must have said "report IFR cancellation" 1000 times in the last year. I'm really glad the QA guy that does our daily audits doesn't know that I'm not supposed to say that.
  #34
KillaMike's Avatar
Offline
KillaMike
Junior Member
Re: VFR-On-Top Procedures
Posted: 07-07-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATCinWI View Post
Man, I must have said "report IFR cancellation" 1000 times in the last year. I'm really glad the QA guy that does our daily audits doesn't know that I'm not supposed to say that.
QA doesn't understand the rules? Are you surprised?
  #35
nevets's Avatar
Offline
nevets
Rookie
Re: VFR-On-Top Procedures
Posted: 07-09-2009, 05:29 PM

I think there is a confusion between a "VFR-on-top clearance" with a "climb to VFR-on-top" clearance. AIM:

A pilot on an IFR flight plan operating in VFR weather conditions, may request VFR‐on‐top in lieu of an assigned altitude. This permits a pilot to select an altitude or flight level of their choice (subject to any ATC restrictions.)

Pilots desiring to climb through a cloud, haze, smoke, or other meteorological formation and then either cancel their IFR flight plan or operate VFR‐on‐top may request a climb to VFR‐on‐top. The ATC authorization shall contain either a top report or a statement that no top report is available, and a request to report reaching VFR‐on‐top. Additionally, the ATC authorization may contain a clearance limit, routing and an alternative clearance if VFR‐on‐top is not reached by a specified altitude.

A pilot on an IFR flight plan, operating in VFR conditions, may request to climb/descend in VFR conditions.

When operating in VFR conditions with an ATC authorization to “maintain VFR‐on‐top/maintain VFR conditions” pilots on IFR flight plans must:

1. Fly at the appropriate VFR altitude as prescribed in 14 CFR Section 91.159.

2. Comply with the VFR visibility and distance from cloud criteria in 14 CFR Section 91.155 (Basic VFR Weather Minimums).

3. Comply with instrument flight rules that are applicable to this flight; i.e., minimum IFR altitudes, position reporting, radio communications, course to be flown, adherence to ATC clearance, etc.

NOTE
Pilots should advise ATC prior to any altitude change to insure the exchange of accurate traffic information.

ATC authorization to “maintain VFR‐on‐top” is not intended to restrict pilots so that they must operate only above an obscuring meteorological formation (layer). Instead, it permits operation above, below, between layers, or in areas where there is no meteorological obscuration. It is imperative, however, that pilots understand that clearance to operate “VFR‐on‐top/VFR conditions” does not imply cancellation of the IFR flight plan.

Pilots operating VFR‐on‐top/VFR conditions may receive traffic information from ATC on other pertinent IFR or VFR aircraft. However, aircraft operating in Class B airspace/TRSAs shall be separated as required by FAA Order JO 7110.65, Air Traffic Control.

NOTE
When operating in VFR weather conditions, it is the pilot's responsibility to be vigilant so as to see‐and‐avoid other aircraft.

ATC will not authorize VFR or VFR‐on‐top operations in Class A airspace.

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