Late switch from approach to tower

blevblev Newcomer Huntington, NY

At KFRG it frequently happens that I'll be on my approach for landing, talking to the tower, and the guy in the tower will say something like "be prepared to go around. There's a jet coming in and I'm not talking to him yet." That is, the jet is almost (or even actually) in the Class Delta and he hasn't been handed off to the tower by approach yet.

The situation brings up a question - if I'm flying the jet (or non jet for that matter), and talking to approach, and I enter the Class D before speaking to the tower, where does that put me? Don't the regs say that I have to establish contact with the tower before entering the Class D?

atcbrownie Trusted Member Warrenton Va

the reg says that you have to have two radio comm with atc to enter the delta. Approach is ATC in my opinion you are ok to enter the delta if talking to approach because approach is required to coordinate for you.

My guess is that either approach forgot to ship the jet to tower or the pilot forgot to physically change freqs. Happens all the time.

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

Blev, my question is were you being worked by approach going into FRG or where you flying around not being provided radar service by the approach control and just contacted FRG tower that you were inbound?

I've worked at VFR towers where VFR aircraft can call inbound, I will receive IFR inbounds from the center or approach control and I will sequence my VFR inbound traffic with the IFR traffic. You need to know that a VFR tower is only responsible for "RUNWAY Seperation", and issuing traffic that they know about.

If the IFR facility has say a jet inbound, depending on when I got to talk with the IFR inbound will affect how I sequence you and the IFR inbound to land.

As an approach controller for the VFR tower in my Class C I sequence everyone to that airport as well as to my primary airport. For the non towered airports I will sequence all IFR traffic to that airport, but VFR traffic has their radar service terminated in a timely distance from the airport and they are on their own to announce themselves to the traffic pattern and sequence themselves. The IFR aircraft will have his radar service terminated soon enough that they can announce themselves and figure out their own sequence with any VFR traffic, once the IFR inbound cancels IFR they join the VFR guys in working out who is first and so on.

joecoolinsc Rookie Spartanburg, SC

You cannot be violated for anything in this situation, because as Brownie said, you are in contact with ATC. It wouldn't hurt to ask approach "would you like me to contact tower?" or if you don't like questioning the controller, just say "Approach, N123, I have the airport in sight." (even you have previously)

There are lot of possibilities:

1. The approach controller forgot to switch you over. (we are human)

2. The approach controller thought he switched you over. (see #1)

3. The approach controller did switch you over, and you missed it. (pilots are human too)

4. The approach controller is busy/behind or down the tubes as we call it.

5. Your radio just went out, and you don't know it yet :-D

On and on and on. It's really not a big deal. Just don't be afraid to speak up...

polo708 Epic Member tower

if you are IFR then you are ok... if you are VFR you better call the tower prior to entering class D.

klkm Senior Member

Our LOA always says switch the arrival prior to entering the Class D airspace, but a lot of the times we are pushing the limits on the visuals, and they may pick it up 1 mile from the airspace, by the time they switch, I bet the tower has to do some shuffling if they have some pattern work going on.

If as a pilot you are cleared on the approach and turn onto the final approach course there really is no problem with asking to switch to the tower. Especially if the approach control is being handled by a center, they probably went from concentrating on you to get you on the approach back to the overall picture, took care of some things they were waiting on so they didn't blow you through the approach, and forgot to get back to you to switch you.

blevblev Newcomer Huntington, NY

It's ambiguous at best the way it's spelled out in 91.129

Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

"prior to entering" implies the tower, not another ATC. Does approach take precedence over the tower in the pecking order of who is "the facility providing air traffic services" in this case?

Of course this probably is one of those things where the actual practice is based on human agreements and not the regulations.

ATCinWI Senior Member Illinois

Class D airspace is basically VFR airspace . . . if you're on an IFR flight plan, the overlying TRACON is responsible for the IFR operations into and out of the class D, so your requirement is met by talking to approach.

joecoolinsc Rookie Spartanburg, SC

Blev,

Maybe this is the "book answer" you are looking for.

It is ultimately the pilot's responsibility. But my original advice still stands. If you are receiving advisories, request the frequency change from the controller providing them.

As a controller, it is also my responsibility to terminate service or switch you to the tower in time for you to comply with your requirements.

Joe

P.S. And I still say you would not get violated for switching late. The FAA mentality is if at all possible, fault the controller first. My opinion.

Stan Marsh Senior Member The Beach

This occurred at a certain major airport that I'm familiar with. Nothing exploded, no one was run over, no one dropped a donut. The pilots realized their mistake when they landed and turned off the runway. The airplane nuts at Airliners.net had a field day over the topic.

Landing Without Clearance (incident) — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net