Helicopter Landing Clearance 3-11-6

LTKL Newcomer NC

I am training at a VFR tower with class D airspace. We have a medical center just outside our airspace and of course have helo's land from time to time. My traininer has us say "report landing assured" but I can't find that anywhere. He says do not use "at own risk" unless they are actually landing on the airfield (in a field, between taxiways, etc). For instance, if the helo is landing 3 miles away to respond to an accident, (w/in our airspace), my trainer uses "landing assured" and not "at own risk." When do you use or not use "landing will be at your own risk?"

Ref:
3-11-6c. If landing is requested to an area not visible, an
area not authorized for helicopter use, an unlighted
nonmovement area at night, or an area off the airport,
and traffic is not a factor, use the following
phraseology.
PHRASEOLOGY LANDING
AT (requested location) WILL BE AT YOUR
OWN RISK (reason and additional instructions, as
necessary).
TRAFFIC (as applicable),
or
TRAFFIC NOT A FACTOR.

joecoolinsc Rookie Spartanburg, SC

You can't find "landing assured" anywhere because it doesn't exist, not in the .65 anyway. While it may provide you peace of mind, it does little else.

You've pretty much answered this yourself...

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

Your trainer is incorrect, if in fact that's what he's telling you. The "At your own risk" phraseology is to be used just as you quoted. When landing will be on a nonmovement area on the airport (i.e. ramps, islands between taxiways, grass field) on the airport and you can see the helo, you use the "Proceed as requested, use caution" phraseology. If it is at night and it's on a nonmovement area that is NOT lit, then that phraseology changes to "Landing will be at your own risk" phraseology.

In this particular case, the .65 leaves little room for confusion, so I don't know why your trainer is teaching you this. Perhaps you may have misinterpreted what he was saying.

As for the "landing assured".... There is no requirement for an aircraft of any sort to report "landing assured"... HOWEVER, the common thought is to have the aircraft report "landing assured" especially when on an airport or area not visible from the tower because there may be an instance where that aircraft/helo may crash or something like that. Once the target goes away (assuming you have radar, if you don't have radar you'd just think he landed safely to begin with), you'd be under the impression the helo has landed safely, when in fact they need an ambulance. It's just a safety thing. I do it to this day, because 99 out of 100 times, they'll land safely. I just don't want to be the one not providing assistance when that 1 out of 100 happens.

You may be saying "wouldn't I see smoke?"... Not necessarily. I know of 2 crashes in my short 8 1/2 years of controlling where there was no smoke. One was a helo, the other was an Extra 300.

In any case, do what you trainer tells you. Just nod, say "okay" (or wilco, or whatever it takes to get the monkey off your back) and get checked out. Once you're done, then do it your way. I know you want to be "right", but there's a fine line between the right way, the wrong way, and the way you're instructor tells you. Do what you're told, and you'll be fine, otherwise expect a long and drawn out training program.

joecoolinsc Rookie Spartanburg, SC

atcguruaf:

The .65 reference given does say:

I do not have experience as a tower controller in Class D but the class of the airspace is irrelevant. But it does say "or an area off the airport". So I understand LTKL's question. And I agree with your advice.

If a medical helicopter advises me it will be landing at a crash scene off the airport, I simply acknowledge it as well. No need for a bunch of meaningless phraseology.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

You are correct. Which is again, why there is little room for confusion. The trainer is technically incorrect. When I was referencing landing assured, well, I'll just give you an example...

Pilot: XYZ tower, Helicopter 1234 en route to intersection of main st. and MLK Blvd., we have information Alpha.

Me: Helicopter 1234, XYZ Tower, landing at requested location will be at your own risk, not in sight from tower. Report Landing assured.

Pilot: Helicopter 234, wilco.

(Once the pilot lands)

Pilot: Tower, Helicopter 234 is landing assured.

Me: Helicopter 234, roger.

Sorry for the confusion with my previous statement. I use "landing assured" as part of my landing clearance, not in lieu of my landing clearance.

In any case, I use the .65 rules if it applies, regardless of whether or not it's deemed meaningless. I'm rather the Nazi when it comes to using correct phraseology and complying with the .65. I've found that the more you go "by the book" the less QA has to throw at you when you put two together. HAHA...

polo708 Epic Member tower

if the landing area is not visible from the tower you use "at your own risk". The phrase "Report landing assured" can be used in addition, but not in lieu like said above.

If the area is uncontrolled but you can visually see it and you deem it safe then you use "proceed as requested, use caution". If the area is controlled then you can use an actual clearance.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

Of course (even though I still request a report of landing assured) you can still get bitten in the ass. What if you advise the pilot to report landing assured and he does not comply? Hmmm... Do you ring it out or wait a while? Most of the time, when a pilot didn't report landing assured, we didn't do anything about it, so I guess it never really mattered to begin with.

The way it can bite you in the ass though is if you state at the end of your clearance " report landing assured", the pilot acknowledges, never reports landing assured, but you figure he landed anyway. Since you do nothing, guessing/assuming the pilot landed safely (because there's no smoke), if it later comes out that the pilot crashed or something, I can see how it would get turned around to be an issue with the controller, again that's if nothing was done.

I've only had like 1 or 2 pilots out of a butt load that didn't report landing assured. Just something to think about though. Again, I still use it. I'll typically watch his target. Once it drops off the scope, if the pilot hasn't reported already, I'll remind him "confirm landing assured"? (yes, I know that the target can drop off if the helo gets below radar coverage, I only do this as a reminder to the pilot before he goes off frequency).

joecoolinsc Rookie Spartanburg, SC

I just searched the 7110.65, the AIM and the FAR's for "landing assured", and failed to find it in any of them.

As I said in my first post, it doesn't exist.

I have started a new thread on this subject, separate from the helicopter issues here.

polo708 Epic Member tower

please define butt load... how much is that? Does it differ from person to person? haha

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

Well, hmm... that's a good question. I guess in my case, it's A LOT A LOT A LOT, whereas with others it may mean a few... haha