TRSA

dishdawg901 Rookie Va Beach

not sure where to put this so i figured this was the best spot....

I'm a mil controller and lately we have been having debates concerning VFR A/C in class E airspace. long story short i'm trying to find out who designates TRSA's? and how that process goes.

if anyone can help it would be greatly apprciated, thanks.

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

TRSA is an old designation of airspace. it's still used, but it's not like their making new ones. as far as i know.

back when they had PCA, TRSA, etc. now it's all classes. A, B, C, D, E, and G. i never worked TRSA designated airspace.

barty Trusted Member

I believe they would just create Class C airspace, or perhaps a class D with an approach control in lieu of a TRSA today. All of the TRSA's I am aware of are nothing but the latter scenario anyway.

When I earned my pilot's license 8 years ago, I kept having people tell me all the time that TRSAs were going to go away completely, with their radar services either being absorbed into a larger facility and the airspace removed from charts, converted to a Class C airspace, or even have the radar service removed entirely. To date, I'm not aware of any TRSA that has been removed from the charts, though I am aware of one that was absorbed into a nearby TRACON.

xxDYxx Rookie Florida (KPAM)

You can find TRSA airspace on the VFR sectional chart, its a thick black cicle around the class delta. Incase you wanted to know if there was one around your area.

ATCinWI Senior Member Illinois

Just from my general observation, it seems that TRSA's typically exist where a civilian approach control facility serves a class D airport, and that airport is the primary airport in the approach control's airspace (I don't know if it matters if the tower/tracon are combined to one facility). I'm thinking of places like FAR, BGM, ELM, AVP, etc . . . but then again, DLH is one that has a combined tower/tracon, but no TRSA. BFL as well . . . So I suppose I don't really know the answer, but I may as well post what I have already written . . .

dishdawg901 Rookie Va Beach

thanks for all the responses....the reason i ask is that again i am a mil controller at ntu (oceana, virginia beach) we are class e airspace with a class d ofcourse.....one of our "brilliant" controllers wants to apply all the TRSA rules (providing VFR sep) within our airspace through a facility directive. since i am part of the PEB (procedure evaluation board) i'm tasked with finding out why or why not we should/can do this. We have several light civil aircraft flying through our airspace daily and landing at uncontrolled civil airports withing our airspace. I for one think it's a horrible idea and i'm not sure we are even allowed to do that. our airspace is delagated by ZDC and i'm sure if they wanted us to do all this we would have a class C right?

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

@dishdawg

unfortunately if the "brilliant" controller u are talking about is in some sort of authority position then u guys might be screwed. management can always dictate more stringent standards than outlined in the .65 by way of an SOP. if u guys are NOT designated TRSA airspace then i don't know why your "brilliant" management type wants to make stricter separation standards. what a genius idea. </sarcasm>

someone in the right position needs to explain to the chief that this is a horrible idea. just because a military facility works civilian aircraft through their airspace, doesn't mean they should start adding some sort of "civilian separation" (whatever that means).

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't an airport with Class E airspace an airport without a control tower, and Class D is an airport with a operating control tower.

So why if NTU is Class D would you want to provide TRSA rules, it increases your workload, and responsibilities plus isn't ORF (Norfolk ATCT) your IFR controlling facility.

We have HUA (Redstone AAF) that when open has Class D airspace, that is partially within our Class C. Our LOA with them, they own surface to 2,400, we sequence all their arrivals (IFR and VFR), if we have an overflight that is within their altitudes we APREQ to fly through their airspace.

I know you guys work a lot of traffic at Oceania, and I can't understand why someone would want to add the extra workload, unless he motivation is to get you guys upgraded which might mean a pay raise for you guys. You might want to talk with the controllers over at Norfolk ATCT and get their take on this.

nevets Rookie

Not all of them are circles. Look at PSP.

Not necessarily. You can have a control tower in class E. Henderson, NV used to be that way. I think they've since changed it to class D.

dishdawg901 Rookie Va Beach

mike atc

we have a class d (for our tower) but are also a TRACON with class E delegated from ZDC. ORF does not control our IFR traffic. you are absolutely correct on creating more work for us though. as of right now we only provide VFR flight following to VFR aircraft within our airspace leaving speration and avoidance soley on the pilot operating VFR (isn't that how it should be anyways)....long story short, the problem comes from under educated controllers trying to over think things and only knowing what someone told them and not reading any pubs. this particular person is trying to make a name for himself by changing the procedures that actually just put more work on controllers. unfortunatley since we are military no pay raise for us. i guess the reason i brought this up was to go back to the board (procedures evalutation) and show them why this directive (trying to make us a TRSA without being labeled one on VFR sectionals). at our quarterly meeting yesterday i brought all this up and what i got in return was "show us the guide lines for becoming a TRSA". as good as i may be about reading and comprehending the pubs i can't seem to find the answers i guess they are looking for.