Clearance from a Final Approach Fix - FAF

BUTLER1978 Newcomer

The basic question is can you clear an aircraft from a FAF if it is not an IAF, or IF? We have a satellite airport that we would clear A/C from the FAF cause it was an IAF, when the new FLIPS came out its now only a FAF, can we still clear from that, the .65 4-8-1 says IAF, IF or vectors to final only.

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

u can use the FAF if ur gonna vector to final. as long as u use a legal intercept angle and join final a legal distance from the gate.

BUTLER1978 Newcomer

yeah I know all about the vectors, Im talking about a pilot requesting direct the FAF for the clearance, which you can do if its an IAF, but now its not listed as that anymore, Im just trying to confirm that you cant clear A/C from the FAF anymore.

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

oh i see what ur saying now.

i don't believe u can do that. just an IAF or IF fix.

atcbrownie Trusted Member Warrenton Va

Do you have a depicted final approach course (i.e. do you vector to final)? I would say that if the pilot requests the clearance from the FAF issue the clearance because per .65 5-9-1 you can vector to intercept at the fix if the pilot requests.

5-9-1. VECTORS TO FINAL APPROACH COURSE

Except as provided in para 7-4-2, Vectors for Visual Approach, vector arriving aircraft to intercept the final approach course:

a. At least 2 miles outside the approach gate unless one of the following exists:

1. When the reported ceiling is at least 500 feet above the MVA/MIA and the visibility is at least 3 miles (report may be a PIREP if no weather is reported for the airport), aircraft may be vectored to intercept the final approach course closer than 2 miles outside the approach gate but no closer than the approach gate.

2. If specifically requested by the pilot, aircraft may be vectored to intercept the final approach course inside the approach gate but no closer than the final approach fix.

I know that you aren't vectoring to final but its kinda the same thing. Also it would help if you could give us the airport name so that we can look at the approach plate. Is there a published procedure turn at the fix?

BUTLER1978 Newcomer

Yeah thats what we thought at first about the vector too, I mean the pilot is requesting direct FAF, but when requested by the pilot to intercept no closer than the FAF, does that eleviate you from the 30 degree intercept angle requirement?

the airport is o41 woodland/ watts-woodland CA, the FAF is meret, we've always cleared from there, the issue came up when a pilot landing SUU Travis AFB requested direct jedak (FAF), for our tacan 21r approach, its not an IAF so some said you cant clear from just the FAF, and we always did for o41, but the new FLIPS for o41 no longer call meret a IAF, so we were wondering if you could no longer clear from it anymore.

BUTLER1978 Newcomer

Its actually 20 degree requirement if less than 2 miles from the approach gate, he was coming 90 degrees south of the final approach course.

xxDYxx Rookie Florida (KPAM)

This is just me, but... If the pilot requests it from a position where they will intercept greater than 20, I give them the clearance from the FAF and approve maneuvering airspace north/south/etc of the fix for them to get established. If they are already pretty much lined up with the final, I'll just give them the straight in clearance from the FAF. I'm not sure if its legal or not, so I'm curious as to what other people bring to the table on this one.

ATCinWI Senior Member Illinois

The book answer is that you cannot clear an aircraft direct to the FAF and clear them for the approach. You can give a vector to intercept the final approach course at the FAF with no more than a 20 degree intercept angle, and it's at the pilot's request only.

GPS approaches are the exception; if you're vectoring onto final, you still have to vector to intercept 1 mile from the approach gate.

BUTLER1978 Newcomer

Thanks ATCinWI, that what the majority here thought as well, just that some people who have always done it, think that you can.