Speaking of clearances...

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

Okay, since FRC was rather recent, it got me thinking about something else to debate. Again, please use references to back up your statements/posts even if the references are local (they'd be interesting to look at).

1. When reading a clearance, and the aircraft is filed on a SID with a transition, how is it read, or rather how do you interpret the .65 says you should read it?

2. Are issuing altitudes required if included in the SID?

3. Are issuing expect FL390 (x time) minutes after departure required if "expect filed altitude..." is included in the SID?

There's no issue at my facility, and I know how I interpret it. Just something else to debate about. I know some of you will not use references because for some reason you think you know the .65 inside and out, therefore there's no need for interpreting, your way is the right way. For those of you that use references to back your statements up, THANK YOU!

(I'm gettin to like these little debates, haha)

Love,

ER

xxDYxx Rookie Florida (KPAM)

This is my interpretation of 4-3-2. At my base we have SID's that transition into MOA's. SO.... (assuming they filed for the proper airspace delay time...) I would say something like: Checker01 cleared to VAD via the TROUT3 departure, Compass Lake Transition, then as filed. Maintain FL230, departure freq xxx.xx, squawk xxxx.

TROUT3 is the SID, Compass Lake is the MOA... So there is a transition into it, then as filed with their delay and continued route. I would have to give an altitude to maintain because the SID only takes him so far (this one in particular goes to 120) so he would still need a final altitude to maintain en route.

And I don't have any experience with your third question, but I'm sure someone else will. We'll see what others suggest.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

what base are you at? I'd like to look up the Trout3 departure.

GLF5 Senior Member

Welp, I say:

Cleared to XYZ airport, blank one departure, then as filed. Maintain 100, expect FL330 10 mins after dep, squawk 1234.

We used to not issue expect altitudes but got a memo stating that we were now required to, so now I have to. The dep frequency is issued on the DP so we don't have to issue it. I usually do because half the time I get asked what it is so, whatever. I don't say "via the blank one departure". The DP has no altitudes on it so we have an LOA that states which altitude to be issued.

garlandatc Junior Member

1. When reading a clearance, and the aircraft is filed on a SID with a transition, how is it read, or rather how do you interpret the .65 says you should read it?

4-3-3
EXAMPLE-
“Cleared to Reynolds Airport; (via) David Two RNAV Departure, Kingham Transition; then, as filed. Maintain niner thousand. Expect flight level four one zero, one zero minutes after departure.”

2. Are issuing altitudes required if included in the SID?
4-3-2 No

3. Are issuing expect FL390 (x time) minutes after departure required if "expect filed altitude..." is included in the SID?

4-3-2 4. E. 3. A. No (as long as the expect filed altitude and pilots request altitude are the same)

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

how do you know if they're the same?

ATCinWI Senior Member Illinois

The pilot's requested altitude is what prints out on the strip. ATC can assign something different if they need to (which is the expected altitude in the clearance). But 4-3-2 4. E. 3. A says that unless the "expect (altitude) __ mins after departure" is specified on the SID, you have to issue it.

I'm not sure where/what he's getting at about not having to say it if the filed/assigned altitude are the same.

xxDYxx Rookie Florida (KPAM)

Im at Tyndall RAPCON (KPAM), but the SID's are only locally published for the fighters in our flying reg. I'm not sure you'll be able to find them, but I just wanted to give an example of how it should be used.

garlandatc Junior Member

What I think your looking for is a Low Altitude chart example that identifies this rule. I would need to look through the legend of the Low FLIP to see what the marking would be. Of course if a final cruising alt is identified on the SID the only way you would know is by repetitive use/studying.

Does this just seem strange to you and you would like to see an example of its application?

garlandatc Junior Member

See original post question number 3. The questions stated expect filed altitude. The ref listed and the terminology used required for the clarification or requested altitude vs. expected altitude. They can be different. Also application of an assigned altitude was not mentioned in any of the posts until yours.