Jay-0ne-Zero-four or Jay-One-OH-four

Barney13 Senior Member where u all wanna be...

How r u folks teaching this in the Field? Out here in OKC, we can't find the
correct answer.. Thre use to be an example in the .65, but it's gone..
thanks, CB

djmodifyd Senior Member

zero
/thread

irishcarbomb Moderator Houston, TX

assuming you're talking about high altitude airways shouldnt it be JET-one-zero-four???

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

Jay One Zero Four. Only thing I've found is "zero shall be spoken as zero" in CH. 2 (I think). However, there is an example of where "oh" is used. For a reference that would defend the argument of using "oh", I turn you to CH 2-4-21, c2. One of the examples is "Cessna four-oh-one".

That's the only thing that I've found the word "oh" in, which, in my professional opinion, gives enough cause to use the word "oh". I don't use it, but I wouldn't ding someone for using it, nor have I ever. Even at the facility I'm at now, there isn't much grief about the word "oh", so long as the point get's across.

If some people argue that you ABSOLUTELY MUST say one ZERO four, then the argument can also be brought up that a pilot must read it back as such. If the pilot reads it back as Jay one OH four, then that would constitute an "incorrect readback" and should be corrected (in my opinion).

I know I may have caused more confusion, so to answer you literally:

I have yet to be at a facility where any grief is given over use of the word "oh".

P.S. DEFINITELY not JET.... .65 phraseology specifically says "J"

irishcarbomb Moderator Houston, TX

i figured i was wrong, that was pure speculation lol

DotsonUSAF Rookie Little Rock, AR

I could be wrong but isn't there a section stating something along lines of "If deemed necessary, a controller/pilot may use alternative phraseology when similar sounding call signs are present for the purpose of clarification or to prevent confusion between pilots/controllers."

Example: "PUMA ZERO-ONE" and "PROPS OH-ONE" on the same frequency.

I'm working right now, and I'd ask the the watch sup, but she's sleeping =)

-Dotson

towerflower Junior Member Palm Coast, FL

2-5-1. AIR TRAFFIC SERVICE (ATS)
ROUTES
Describe ATS routes as follows:
a. VOR/VORTAC/TACAN airways or jet routes.
State the word “Victor” or the letter “J” followed by
the number of the airway or route in group form.
EXAMPLE-
“Victor Twelve.”
“J Five Thirty-Three.”
b. VOR/VORTAC/TACAN alternate airways.
State the word “Victor” followed by the number of the
airway in group form and the alternate direction.
EXAMPLE-
“Victor Twelve South.”
c. Colored/L/MF airways. State the color of the
airway followed by the number in group form.
EXAMPLE-
“Blue Eighty-One.”

The correct answer would be the group form "J one-oh-four". By using the first example you would be using what is considered separate digits but there is another section which provides for using multiple methods when confusion may result:

2-4-18. NUMBER CLARIFICATION
a. If deemed necessary for clarity, and after stating
numbers as specified in para 2-4-17, Numbers
Usage, controllers may restate numbers using either
group or single‐digit form.
EXAMPLE-
“One Seven Thousand, Seventeen Thousand.”
“Altimeter Two Niner Niner Two, Twenty Nine Ninety
Two.”
“One Two Six Point Five Five, One Twenty Six Point Fifty
Five.”

PS--the answer was always there but sometimes it takes some looking.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

[QUOTE=towerflower;85749]

The correct answer would be the group form "J one-oh-four".[QUOTE]

Actually, the .65 specifically states to state the number "zero" as "zero" except when in group form. Group form has never included "oh", given that "oh" is a letter, not a number. Group form would be thirty twelve (3012) or twenty-seven fifty (2750). Here is that reference, which too, was always there. The ONLY thing that could be used as an argument is the section where a cessna is described.

2-4-17, Numbers usage: d. The number “0” as “zero” except where it is used in approved “group form” for authorized aircraft call signs, and in stating altitudes.


2-4-21, Description of Aircraft Types:

2. Manufacturer's name, or add color when considered advantageous.

EXAMPLE-
“Tri-Pacer.”
“P A Twenty-Two.”
“Cessna Four-Oh-One.”
“Blue and white King Air.”
“Airliner.”
“Sikorsky S-Seventy-Six.”

I think it suffices to say that this makes it okay to say "oh".