Star rnav

MarcioAndre Newcomer

Hello guys!!

I am a Brazilian air traffic control. We are facing some problems on using STAR RNAV procedures. Normally, here, the aircraft don't accomplish all the STAR including the restrictions and the path. Normally, the air traffic controller gives a different instruction. The aircraft is lead to do a shorter path. I would like to know from you if in the USA the aircraft accomplish or not the full STAR including the path and the restriction levels. I also would like to know which terms you use in the phraseology in these cases:

a) when you want the aircraft obey both vertical and lateral navigation;

b) when you want the aircraft obey only lateral navigation.

I'm waiting for your help. Thanks.

M?rcio

otterstrom Trusted Member of NATCA

we do both. sometimes they fly the whole STAR and sometimes they're taken off or never fly it at all. we'll take them off the STAR if the skies aren't busy and the plane can be vectored more efficiently or if they need to be moved around for sequencing.

if we wanted them to use the crossing restrictions down there at rio de janeiro, we would give them a crossing altitude for the first fix they'll use along the STAR and then say "descend via the SULI arrival."

MarcioAndre Newcomer

Thanks otterstrom.
According to your response I can see you act as we do here in Brazil. I don't know in USA but here, in Brazil, we are facing a great problem on this. As we normally take them off the STAR, when we need he fly the whole using crossing restrictions he doesn't do. The pilots don't have the habit of doing it. So they commit mistakes or they simply don't do.
Can you say which regulation (FAA) talks about the STAR and the correspondent phraseology? I'm thinking on writing a sugestion in order to change our regulation.
Can you, if you know, tell me which ICAO regulation talks about it?

Are the people that post here air traffic controllers?

Thank you at all.

Marcio Andre

Rosstafari Daaaang. /X

Depends on what part of StuckMic you're on. The ATC Employment and ATC Academy sections are mostly applicants and new hires. Anything with CTI in it tends to be college students. ATC Regulations and Union Issues are mostly controllers. Everything else is a mix.

You're our first South American, or at least the first native one that I know of. Hooray!

MarcioAndre Newcomer

Another doubt: are they in USA changing ground based STAR for GNSS RNAV STAR? Are there RNAV SID published?

travelingcutie Junior Member Portland, Oregon

Ola e Benvido!

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

Yes, Las Vegas has RNAV SIDs.

we have 5 RNAV SIDs and 4 RNAV STARs.
BOACH2 RNAV SID
SHEAD5 RNAV SID

otterstrom Trusted Member of NATCA

Anyone know? Lets help this guy out.

Yes.

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

FAAO 7110.65 chapter 4 scroll down to paragraph 4-5-h.

FAAO 7110.65 paragraph 4-5-h

h. Instructions to vertically navigate on a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP with published restrictions.

PHRASEOLOGY-
DESCEND VIA (STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP name and number)
TERMINAL: DESCEND VIA (STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP name and number and runway number).

EXAMPLE-
“Descend via the Mudde One Arrival.”
“Cross JCT at flight level two four zero, then descend via the Coast Two Arrival.”
TERMINAL: “Descend via the Lendy One Arrival, Runway 22 left.”

NOTE-
Clearance to “descend via” authorizes pilots:
1. To vertically and laterally navigate on a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP.
2. When cleared to a waypoint depicted on a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP, to descend from a previously assigned altitude at pilot's discretion to the altitude depicted for that waypoint, and once established on the depicted arrival, to navigate laterally and vertically to meet all published restrictions. ATC is responsible for obstacle clearance when issuing a “descend via” clearance from a previously assigned altitude.

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 4-5-6, Minimum En Route Altitudes.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 5-5-9, Separation From Obstructions.

NOTE-
3. Pilots navigating on a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP shall maintain last assigned altitude until receiving clearance to “descend via.”
4. Pilots cleared for vertical navigation using the phraseology “descend via” shall inform ATC upon initial contact.

EXAMPLE-
“Delta One Twenty One leaving FL 240, descending via the Civit One arrival.”

REFERENCE-
AIM, Para 5-4-1, Standard Terminal Arrival (STAR), Area Navigation (RNAV) STAR, and Flight Management System Procedures (FMSP) for Arrivals.

1. Assign an altitude to cross the waypoint/fix, if no altitude is depicted at the waypoint/fix, for aircraft on a direct routing to a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP.

EXAMPLE-
“Proceed direct Luxor, cross Luxor at or above flight level two zero zero, then descend via the Ksino One Arrival.”

2. A descend via clearance shall not be used where procedures contain published “expect” altitude restrictions.

NOTE-
Pilots are not expected to comply with published “expect” restrictions in the event of lost communications, unless ATC has specifically advised the pilot to expect these restrictions as part of a further clearance.

3. If it is necessary to assign a crossing altitude which differs from the STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP altitude, emphasize the change to the pilot.

PHRASEOLOGY-
DESCEND VIA THE (STAR/FMSP) ARRIVAL EXCEPT CROSS (fix, point, waypoint) (revised altitude information).

EXAMPLE-
“United 454 descend via the Haris One Arrival, except cross Haris at or above one six thousand.”

NOTE-
The aircraft should track laterally and vertically on the Haris One Arrival and should descend so as to cross Haris at or above 16,000; remainder of the arrival shall be flown as published.

4. If it is necessary to assign an interim altitude, or assign a final altitude not contained on a STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP, the provisions of subpara 4-5-7h may be used in conjunction with subpara 4-5-7a.

PHRASEOLOGY-
DESCEND VIA THE (STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP) ARRIVAL EXCEPT AFTER (fix) MAINTAIN (revised altitude information).

EXAMPLE-
“United 454 descend via the Haris One Arrival, except after Bruno, maintain one zero thousand.”

NOTE-
The aircraft should track laterally and vertically on the Haris One Arrival and should descend so as to comply with all speed and altitude restrictions until reaching Bruno and then maintain 10,000. Upon reaching 10,000, aircraft should maintain 10,000 until cleared by ATC to continue to descend.

REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 4-7-1, Clearance Information.
AIM, Para 5-4-1, Standard Terminal Arrival (STAR), Area Navigation (RNAV) STAR, and Flight Management System Procedures (FMSP) for Arrivals.

otterstrom Trusted Member of NATCA

awesome, thanks. there you go marcio.