TPaddack Rookie Amity Harbor, New York

Been out of ATC for a long time so I have a question that I need for my current novel. When I worked at Tucson International Airport so long ago the Arizona Air National Guard had a squadron there (still do, of course). When they would be on the runway for takeoff, we had to switch them to departure control frequency while they were still on the runway prior to takeoff. I forget the exact procedure, but I think we used to say "switch to departure control, cleared for takeoff". This would sometime create an issue because since they were doing a lot of training they would sit on the runway for awhile and we had not means of communication other than 243.0. Is this still the case? Anyone from Tucson here?

pigbenis Rookie

i believe the phrase you're looking for is "change to departure, runway blah blah cleared for takeoff"


2. Inform all departing IFR military turboprop/turbojet aircraft (except transport and cargo types) to change to departure control frequency. If the local controller has departure frequency override, transmit urgent instructions on this frequency. If the override capability does not exist, transmit urgent instructions on the emergency frequency.
PHRASEOLOGY-
CHANGE TO DEPARTURE.

from 3-9-3. DEPARTURE CONTROL INSTRUCTIONS

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

"cleared for takeoff, change to departure"

i don't do it though, for the exact reason you stated. i personally just clear them for takeoff, then at a decent altitude, attitude, speed, etc i tell them to "contact departure". i could care less about the 2500 agl rule for single-piloted military jets. traffic is more important than a freq change.

if there is no other traffic to conflict then i'll change them on the runway.

p.s. loved ur first 2. island fever was by far my favorite. just wish Larry didn't die. he's my hero. so is Ford for that matter. i could use one of those Caribe punch drinks right now. can't wait for your next one. any teaser for us?

Roddy_Piper Resident Knucklehead Vegas baby

btw, if u guys haven't heard of Terry Paddack he's an ex-controller from the '81 days. he's written 2 excellent novels based on ATC.

his first "Crossing Runways" is based on the time right before the PATCO strike of '81 and the next few years to follow.
here's a link to purchase that book:Crossing Runways

his second "Island Fever" is a story about a tower controller on the island of Caribe in the Caribbeans.
here's a link to purchase that book:Island Fever

I highly suggest you guys check these out. Their excellent reading.

TPaddack Rookie Amity Harbor, New York

Hey, Roddy. thank you.

TPaddack Rookie Amity Harbor, New York

Thanks. I needed this for my third novel, Border Heat which will take place in Tucson and Mexico.

MikeATC Retired FAA, NATCA Member Nashville TN

I see someone has answered your question, so you write novels?

As for technique with single seat military acft., if there is a chance that I might need to issue another instruction after they roll, I'll leave them on tower frequency then tell them to contact departure. Whenever I can I issued departure instructions, cleared for takeoff, change to departure. On those few rare occasions when I had too, I could key up guard and take care of whatever was needed with them.

TPaddack Rookie Amity Harbor, New York

thank you. wwwtangopapabooks.com

polo708 Epic Member tower

I currently work at Tucson and yes we still run the guard out of there... almost 100 F16's actually. Working the ANG departures and recoveries mixed with constant Air Carriers and GA aircraft is the most fun Ive ever had doing this job. Anyways...

We say "Cleared for Takeoff, Change to Departure"

We keep 243.0 handy, lol

polo708 Epic Member tower

Also Roddy and Mike, I disagree...

If we cleared them(fighters), then waited to change them to departure off the end of the runway then everyone would have a hissy-fit, Departure control especially. The 2500ft rule is there for a reason... having a pilot take his eyes off the skies a few thousand feet off the runway, in a climb/turn doing 300+ knots is just stupid. Not only that but the majority of our flights are flights of 4. If you wait for them all to get airborne before changing them then the lead will be clear into departures airspace. Add to that the amount of time it takes to radar ID them and issue instructions. Changing them when the first guy gets airborne will only result in having pilots changing freqs on the runway while some are rolling and trying to keep track of spacing within the flight. Its just way too unsafe.

There is never a time I'd keep fighters on my freq. after I clear them for takeoff. Well, maybe some of those slow, pansie NAVY jets, haha... I joke, I joke. But seriously, they should always be switched on the runway IMO.