Cleaning up the phraseology - "With you", "Out of", and all that...

WickedPenguin Junior Member Pensacola

I've had the pleasure to go flying with several local pilots lately. Being that I'm an ATC-in-training, they've asked me to critique their phraseology.

I've told them that the best way is the cleanest way. Leave out all the pronouns and articles and just state the meat of it. However, I'd like to get some secondary opinions on the matter.

For instance, my departures will often check in with: "Departure, this is Cessna 481BC, climbing out of 700 for 1700 on a heading of 140." That's a whole lot of extraneous words. Ideally, I'd just like to hear: "Departure, Cessna 481BC, 700 for 1700, heading 140." It just sounds more professional.

If it's an overflight, I'm looking to hear the word level. "Center, Cessna 481BC, level 6000." A lot of pilots use the words "With you", which to me seems redundant, since if you're talking to me, you're already with me.

And for a descending arrival, I'm looking for their current altitude, the altitude they're descending to, and the ATIS - nothing more. "Approach, Cessna 481BC, 5600 for 4000, information Charlie." is a lot cleaner than "Approach, Cessna 481BC, with you descending out of 5600 for 4000, with information Charlie."

Lastly, around here, we don't work a lot of aircraft executing published missed approaches. We have mostly practice approach aircraft where we assign them a heading, altitude, and frequency to execute once they complete the approach.

If an aircraft is cleared for an approach into an uncontrolled field and goes missed, what should they check in with once they're on the go? I'm thinking their altitude and the fix they're heading to, such as: "Approach, Cessna 481BC, missed approach, 600 for 2000, turning right direct ERRIE." Is that correct?

What do you like to hear?

atcpookie Junior Member FAA Headquarters, Washington, DC

"Approach, Cessna 481BC, cancel IFR"

cforst513 Rookie

I am not an ATCer, but I am a flight instructor. The shorter, or more 'professional' way, is the way I teach all my students, IFR or VFR. Nothing extraneous. Get the necessary info out there and shut it.

meatasaurusx Trusted Member Chi-town

It certainly sounds better when the pilots (and controllers) use less verbiage. I know I sometimes have a bad habit of saying more on frequency than I should, but I'm still in training as well so I'm working on it. It isn't so much of a problem when it is slow, but when it gets really busy its nice to have everyone (controllers and pilots) get to the point.

atctimmy Newcomer

That was very funny!

DASAUTO Banned

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest threads, yet.

atcguruaf Rico Suave AZ

QUITE POSSIBLY! I say we vote!

+1 to the dumbest thread yet!

Rosstafari Daaaang. /X

Clearly you haven't been in the PUBNAT forums.

WickedPenguin Junior Member Pensacola

Hey, it's all good. I'm not going for a "smartest thread ever" award. I just wanted some additional perspective. If you guys like hearing long-winded pilots prattle on the frequency, whatever's clever for you.

Many of the pilots we deal with have absolutely terrible radio phraseology. I mean, to the point where you gotta wonder how these people walk and breathe at the same time, much less fly an airplane. As they chatter on for 60 seconds about where they are, where they came from, who they are, what they want, what their favorite food is, what their favorite color is, etc. - all on initial contact and without solicitation - I've got other shit I've gotta do which can't get done because these guys are rambling.

In training, we get told repeatedly to cut out all the fat from our transmissions. "You'll need that extra time when you're busy." - which is true.

I'm just saying, it'd be nice if more pilots strove for higher standards in their radio work.

DASAUTO Banned

I'd rather have a cowboy-slang phraseology pilot that strove for increased skills at piloting an aircraft in varying situations. I could care less how he sounds, but that he/she gets me to my destination safely and is ready to react to an emergency situation correctly.

All i care about is that the pilot acknowledges and complies with my instructions. I don't give a shit if he say "roger," or "i got it," or "roger, wilco, over and out." As long as I understand that the pilot understands.

Again, this is quite possibly the dumbest thread I have seen on SM yet.