Salary negotiations.

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  1. #1
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    Salary negotiations.

    Can you negotiate salary after you receive your FOL, or are you bound to the TOL accepted salary? Will they rescind your TOL if you try to renegotiate after the fact?

    Anyone have any negotiating stories they are willing to share

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  2. #2
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Y"-Code View Post
    Can you negotiate salary after you receive your FOL, or are you bound to the TOL accepted salary? Will they rescind your TOL if you try to renegotiate after the fact?

    Anyone have any negotiating stories they are willing to share

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    This isn't the private sector, homie. It's not happening.

  3. #3
    NovemberEcho's Avatar
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra Kilo View Post
    This isn't the private sector, homie. It's not happening.
    he's not ATC and I've heard it's possible, homie. (To op don't take my word though, I don't really know)

  4. #4
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    I negotiated my start salary. When they gave me my initial offer, I asked for 8K more. They came back with 4500 and I accepted. This was during the time I got my TO. I believe if you have a FO the negotiating time has passed. For an ATSS, negotiating start salary is fine, but since most ATSS come in as F or G bands - usually, you get promoted to H pretty fast so you can be a stand alone technician. Since band bumps and raises are fixed, most new hire techs end up bottom/lower H band within a couple years.

    Scotter

  5. #5
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    I came in at the bottom of G-Band (+ locality), was told I couldn't negotiate my salary, but learned that was B.S. after the fact (and everyone in my Common Principles course had negotiated their salaries, even some of the F-Banders were making $10,000/ year than I was) and now I am at the bottom (plus 4.75% + an additional 1.6%) of H-Band (+ locality), took me roughly 13 months to get from G to H... Could have been faster but my training department was rather slow... But all things considered still, even at the bottom of my pay band, I now should annually clear over $70,000 (it's public record, I don't mind sharing), and after you consider differential pay, holiday pay, overtime (rare), etc... I probably even approach $75,000, and that's without per diem for travel to Oklahoma for training considered (I actually haven't been to Oklahoma since September of 2016)... Which is pretty decent still compared to anywhere else for a guy with no 4 year degree... And the demand of the job at an ARTCC is not too labor intensive or anything... So even though it sucks to be the lower paid guy, when you look at it from that perspective and don't count other people's money, it's not bad...


    That said I work in Miami, FL where it is ungodly expensive... But I live 3 hours from where I work in Melbourne, FL where it's a lot cheaper... I have a Miami crash pad that costs me $400/month (pilot crash pad, think military barracks) I stay at when in Miami, and then gas, excessive car maintenance, tolls, etc. to get back and forth... It costs me roughly $6,000/year give or take to go back and forth with crash pad included... So my take home before taxes is roughly $63,000 to $68,000... Which is still not bad... Not 6 figures like others... But it pays the bills...


    I'm trying to get transferred though closer to home... Melbourne or Orlando preferably... Maybe Daytona Beach... Then it'll seem like I got a $6,000/ year pay raise minus difference in locality... I think my locality is just over 22% right now (no where near where it should be, Miami is far more expensive than the locality covers)... Melbourne/ Orlando area is roughly 7-8% less...


    Put it this way... I again pay $6,000/yr to transit back and forth 3 hours each way with a crash pad in Miami, and if I instead decided to move to and live in Miami (or surrounding area) I'd pay about the same or more...


    That all said, it would have been near impossible to make this all work out (to make ends meet) as a G-Bander if not for the fact I had just under a year's worth of Chapter 33 Montgomery GI Bill benefit left... While you are a G-Band you are considered an "apprentice" and will get paid for the OJT training if you apply for it as apart of your GI Bill benefit.... Which for Chapter 33 basically pays you the BAH rate for an E-5 military serviceman with dependents (whether you have dependents or not) for the zip code of your work facility... You get 6 months at 100%, then it reduced by 20% I think every 6 months there after or something like that... For Miami at the time I was getting an additional $2,100 or so/ month and this money is tax free, plus you get something like an addtional $1,000/ year as a stipend for "book/equipment costs"... You won't receive it anymore though once you make H-Band, when you will become known as a "journeyman"... For me, I exhausted my Montgomery GI Bill benefits doing this, which was good because I only had less than the year left and it was due to expire shortly after I exhausted it anyways... so it didn't go to waste at all... And in my case, I used my Chapter 31 benefits years prior to go to school... You get 3 years under Chapter 31 (if eligible for it, and you never used Chapter 33)... Then after you exhaust your Chapter 31 benefits, you can extend a year into the Chapter 33 program (which is what I did)... You can convert to the Chapter 33 at any time but once you use Chapter 33 you forfeit Chapter 31, so you maximize if you exhaust the Chapter 31 first... The difference between the 2 programs is, Chapter 31 you get a set amount (varies year to year but you can look up the amount- its a fixed rate regardless where you live I believe) and you get no stipend, which as a whole is generally more than the Chapter 33 pays, but then you pay for your school from your pocket where as with the Chapter 33 the VA pays the school directly and pays you separately... If you don't exhaust your Chapter 31 benefit before converting over to the Chapter 33, you not only forfeit any remaining Chapter 31 benefit you have, but I think you only get the remaining time under Chapter 33, not sure if you get to also extend the extra year... I remember when I analyzed the option, using the Chapter 31 to exhaustion and then extending afterwards was the best way to go... Though while I went to school under the Chapter 31 I also worked as a Telecommunications Specialist for the Florida State Government and received 50% college tuition reimbursement, so I pocketed then 50% of my tuition too... I work the systems available to me, lol... It's free money, why not do so... I was entitled!!!


    The GI Bill allowed me to make ends meet until I got to H-Band where the money is sufficient to self sustain my expenses and such... The opportunity though this now affords me is far greater than anything I previously had... And now I got formal electronics training I can use to further market myself elsewhere if I wanted to go that route... It's a lot of sacrifice and such, but it was well worth the career move... Obviously it's not ideal especially long term and sometimes I get asked why I took a job in Miami if I don't want to live in Miami... Well, I got my foot in the door where I could which is more than half the battle, and then I'll take it where I can from there when opportunity presents itself... The overhead and just getting into the Federal system alone is worth the hassle... Hopefully Miami isn't long term and I am doing all I can to get back closer to home... But until then I am in a stable environment I can survive in and make work... It's not that bad...


    I'm one of those opportunist who's not afraid of a little discomfort or a challenge... Honestly, its how I built a great career from nothing (no formal training)... Again, no 4 year degree (I have a 2 year general education degree, but never finished my 4 year)... I was just a cop in the military, so everything in the communications/ electronics field I more or less self taught myself informally... I'm just good at selling myself I guess... It all just snowballed from a part time temp job (private sector) I took back in 2007/2008....


    So now I got formal training plus the 9+ years in the communications/ electronics field leading up to this point... So now I'm more marketable elsewhere should I want to, which is invaluable to me, and the salary I have is not bad all things considered...


    Now I have a good answer for that question in every interview... You know, "What is your weakness" or "Why should we hire you over others"... I think I have built a convincing career out of nothing, proving my capabilities...

  6. #6
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    Quote Originally Posted by NovemberEcho View Post
    he's not ATC and I've heard it's possible, homie. (To op don't take my word though, I don't really know)
    Home page and not knowing what subforum this was has betrayed me, homie.

  7. #7
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    Thanks all for your input. I accepted my initial TOL, no negotiations. This is my dream location and didn't want to rattle the cage. Also, I was given a TOL some years back for another position. I completed everything for my FOL, but they couldn't bring me on because of the government sequester. Come 10 months later, after I found a better paying job with great people, they asked if I was still interested. I had to turn it down, unless they could bring my pay up roughly 6k from what my TOL offered. They came back and said they saw no reason to justify any higher pay and that would be the cap they offer to any new ATSS at that location. In a nutshell, I tried negotiating once and I didn't win so I decided to take what I was given. Its only a $1500 pay cut from my current, and I should recoup plus a few thousand in a few years.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra Kilo View Post
    Home page and not knowing what subforum this was has betrayed me, homie.
    Hover over the link, it says it in the URL. Or when you get to this page, look at the top. First thing I did.

  9. #9
    SMS
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    Negotiation is definitely possible, in between TOL and FOL but the first, best, course of action is to actually have that conversation with your hiring manager at the very beginning. That person is who submits the salary tool to HR for approval, before they even offer you a TOL.

    If you can get the manager to submit a reasonable salary proposal right off the bat it makes the process smoother. I did that both times that I went through the FAA hiring process.

    ...and just a rant given the current climate and state of union contract negotiations: Research the FAA Core Compensation pay plan, understand it, ask questions and once you accept the job at your given salary don't be "that guy" who endlessly bitches about not getting paid enough. Don't be that guy who constantly demands the union renegotiate salary on his behalf without being able to articulate why he/she should be paid more.
    Last edited by SMS; 07-02-2017 at 08:50 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Salary negotiations.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMS View Post
    Negotiation is definitely possible, in between TOL and FOL but the first, best, course of action is to actually have that conversation with your hiring manager at the very beginning. That person is who submits the salary tool to HR for approval, before they even offer you a TOL.

    If you can get the manager to submit a reasonable salary proposal right off the bat it makes the process smoother. I did that both times that I went through the FAA hiring process.

    ...and just a rant given the current climate and state of union contract negotiations: Research the FAA Core Compensation pay plan, understand it, ask questions and once you accept the job at your given salary don't be "that guy" who endlessly bitches about not getting paid enough. Don't be that guy who constantly demands the union renegotiate salary on his behalf without being able to articulate why he/she should be paid more.
    AMEN!!!

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love more money or to make something closer to those I work with as I came in at the bottom of G-Band and am now close to the bottom of H-Band (the 4.75% from bottom of H-Band per contract plus 1 of those 1.6% raises later)...

    Bu that said, I took the job at the price offered... My only gripe is HR told me the offer was not negotiable while everyone else in my common principle class including some of the F-Banders were making 10 grand more than I was... Because they negotiated... Many of which I had more experience than, even helped through the course as they struggled...

    But even still.... I accepted the offer...

    That said.... It'd be cool if I could get more money at some point... But, it'll come if it comes...

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