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Thread: Suit Letter #1

  1. #41
    phillyman2633's Avatar
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    I was going to talk shit, but I thought this was pretty funny, soooooooo ya I'll let you have this one

    Last edited by phillyman2633; 01-06-2014 at 08:58 AM. Reason: U kan stil eat shit doe

  2. #42
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by GS3k View Post
    This is a letter from a lawyer to the V.P., aptly entitled (by me) suit letter #1, I'm sure there will be many more to come.
    What lawyer starts a formal letter with "I'm not sure..."?

  3. #43
    phillyman2633's Avatar
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFoley46 View Post
    What lawyer starts a formal letter with "I'm not sure..."?

  4. #44
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Se habla espanol!

  5. #45
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by AvInErDgUrL View Post
    FAA only said they were looking to diversify. I don't agree that it automatically means race or that unqualified people will be selected over qualified. The letter focuses solely on race and I know the barrier analysis mentions it but the FAA has never said we are looking to hire more minorities. An open announcement for everyone would be hard to prove a race agenda especially when the biographical questionnaire will more than likely be coming from OPM. You can even look one up on their website.
    I think it means they are looking for short chubby people... just my opinion.

  6. #46
    phillyman2633's Avatar
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Is "albino" a minority? Like, in the form of being so white that it hurts?

  7. #47
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quite the rant. Some points to consider.
    1. CTI certification rate - got a source? I believe the FAA has published some data - not anecdotes like the Inspector General, but actual data - showing the CPC rate for CTI is less than VRA, greater than GenPub, but overall, not all that different across fairly large numbers of persons in each group (over 1,000 each).
    2. Ricci v. DeStefano. The "lawyer" completely misstates the facts (and the law) in the Ricci case. The white and Hispanic test-takers passed the test, and were put on the promotion list (to Captain I believe). However, the Bridgeport FD decided to NOT use the resulting promotion list (which would have included the complainants Ricci, et al) because of the POSSIBILITY of an adverse impact lawsuit from the Black applicants who didn't make the promotion list. Ricci et al sued the BFD for refusing to promote them. The Supreme Court held that the BFD could not NOT disregard the test results (which had adverse impact on Blacks) simply for fear of a suit. That is, the employer could not disregard the results of valid selection test.
    3. Barrier analysis. Under the disparate impact theory of discrimination, the plaintiff/complainant does not have to prove causation; a demonstration of a statistical disparity in pass rates on the test battery as a whole or its components (in some circumstances) of a certain magnitude (generally, the 4/5ths rule, but there are variations, which Outtz & Associates also computed) is sufficient to raise an inference of (unintentional) illegal discrimination on the basis of race, sex, etc. The fact of the disparity is sufficient to establish what is known as the prima facie case against the employer, in which case then the employer must show that the test is job related. See the validation reports on AT-SAT for that million-dollar demonstration.
    4. The telecon. From all reports, the FAA executives were inarticulate, perhaps evasive, and certainly unconvincing. Not exactly confidence-inspring.
    5. The policy change. The FAA, as a federal agency, has the absolute legal right to change its hiring processes at any time. And you can't sue the federal government for taking action within its legitimate scope of powers. Only for violating a statute or regulation.
    6. The CTI program. What folks don't realize is that purpose of the CTI program was to off-load the cost of initial training onto the individual and reduce FAA training costs. To level the playing field because of disparities in resources available to schools, the 5-week Basics curriculum became what was off-loaded. it wasn't about improving the quality of new hires. It was about cost-shifting.
    7. Biographical questionnaire. Biographical questionnaires are a well-established OBJECTIVE personnel selection technique. FAA has published studies on biographical data for controllers, and there are substantial numbers of other scientific reports in the applied psychology literature for many other occupations. 2 minutes of research on Google Scholar would clear that up for the 27-year veteran controller/"lawyer."

    I predict this "suit letter #1" will get either (a) no response at all, or (b) a nicely worded say-nothing form letter signed by robopen.

  8. #48
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    The guy's noises when the large lady was rubbing off with the lint roller....indescribably beautiful. Like a Stradivarius.

  9. #49
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    "the CTI program was to off-load the cost of initial training onto the individual and reduce FAA training costs. To level the playing field because of disparities in resources available to schools, the 5-week Basics curriculum became what was off-loaded. it wasn't about improving the quality of new hires. It was about cost-shifting."

    That just hurts to read

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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by psykomagician View Post
    I predict this "suit letter #1" will get either (a) no response at all, or (b) a nicely worded say-nothing form letter signed by robopen.
    Knowing a good deal how headquarters works, I predict this will go exactly where all other rants and manifestos sent to the government by the mentally ill and 20 year old kids end up: the trash.

    Seriously, nobody opens letters like these. If you're an FAA employee and in management, you should use official channels to let your feelings be known (lol).

    If you're not in the agency, nobody gives a rip about your opinion.

  11. #51
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    I don't believe I've ever heard it said better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ice_cold656 View Post
    I posted this on another thread but here is the short of all of this. The FAA is going back to the old style of hiring. It is fair game for everyone. Boom--done. And as far as race, or gender, or educational background-- what this hiring change does is makes it fair game for everyone. This is a good thing( except for the CTI people) because it allows anyone with the cognitive ability to pursue this career to do so. I know CTI's will bitch about this to no end, but what they need to realize is that it doesn't take a degree in anything to work traffic. It takes a certain type of person. And what this change does is open the hiring up to a broader pool of applicants who might have the so called "it" regardless of their background. I know of a former garbage man who checked out at one of the busiest towers in the world in record time. THAT is what this new bid does. Bitch all you want, but when it comes down to it-- You either can, or you cant, and a CTI degree is no measure of that. And before anyone starts trying to talk shit-- please understand I probably spent more money on my CTI degree then the entire house which contains the room you're sitting in while trying to type out a rebuttal of how and why this new hiring shit isn't fair, on. And ya know what? It didn't mean shit and I'm not bitching. End of story. I'm not saying people don't have the right to be pissed off. But, just internalize the fact that shit has changed, and move on. And if you can do THAT successfully then you are one step closer to having what it takes to be a controller. Be able to adapt to change without getting flustered. It's what you have aside from your degree which will make you successful or not. This change is a good thing for ATC. And if you know any salty old controllers they will surely agree with it because not one of them has a bullshit "CTI" degree. Suck it up, and apply, and do the best you can. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

  12. #52
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by h4xit View Post
    Yeah me either. Was hoping maybe someone could decipher
    I think I can. I actually took this to the head of my department since he just got through training me in the use of software used to make these. That happens to be IBM's SPSS. There may be other similar software but this is the industry standard. These are a fundamental part of social research. You have probably seem similar questionnaires from polling groups or if you have ever been even near a college campus with an active psych or sociology department. These questionnaires mine aggregate data to measure self response on several topics i.e. how religious people are, marriage/career satisfaction, Locus of Control (whether you believe success in life is based more on hard work vs. luck or knowing people), and so on. One thing it is not valid at doing, and they mentioned several red flags in the report about limitations which were glaring, is it is not used to predict. For example one of the things social researchers often do are to ask you questions that you do not know you are answering like when they want to ask if you abuse your spouse. They cannot simply ask you if you abuse them since most people would either refuse to answer at all or lie, so instead they would ask about a particular situation and give you the items they wish to score. That was another sticking point for me is that you do not give more response options just to make it simpler to program and assign them values of zero. You simply leave them off. because the zero is still factored into the scoring. Their are ways to tell it to ignore certain responses but that takes far greater time to do that one by one that to just leave the extraneous parts off, especially on something as ambitious as this with over 700 response options. I would be very interested to see if this was ever published for peer review because I think it would be torn apart by the majority of social researchers. Also fun fact it would have no weight in court as they even admit it is not accepted as valid in the community for these purposes because of the numerous limitations.

    Besides your highschool GPA has diddly to do with whether or not your mind can cognitively function in the manner to see a 2D picture in 3D. This was just someone getting money for their pet project

  13. #53
    GulfCharlie's Avatar
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    How's the appeal going?

  14. #54
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    I have court the 16th. Until that's done nothing is happening FAA wise. It's looking pretty good the DUI will be dismissed though.

  15. #55
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by NovemberEcho View Post
    I have court the 16th. Until that's done nothing is happening FAA wise. It's looking pretty good the DUI will be dismissed though.
    Hope it works out for you and can maybe get to n90 after all.

  16. #56
    GS3k's Avatar
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Hopefully everything goes well for you N.E.!

  17. #57
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by NovemberEcho View Post
    I have court the 16th. Until that's done nothing is happening FAA wise. It's looking pretty good the DUI will be dismissed though.
    what the hell happened .... i've been avoiding this place like the plague until i got the call myself

  18. #58
    N_Trutza's Avatar
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    christ i am an idiot.

  19. #59
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram_Tough View Post

    To me it sounds like everyone has been freaking out about this Biographical questionnaire for the wrong reason. I dont think it going to ask you your race, religion or anything else like that, its a way of gauging on how you react to different situations. Which, I think if done correctly would be an awesome tool in selecting new ATCS. I may be wrong, as I still need to finish reading the rest of the report but I dont think this is a way to disqualify white, Christian males.
    I think gauging how you react to different situations may have been the original idea but the controversy is with the questions themselves. I have taken the BQ and it asks questions that could lead to no other assesment than the BQ assesing your age, gender, race, etc. For an example, a couple of the questions asked were things like: do you play sports? what kind of music do you listen to? etc. How does that gauge performance? However, I bet if I answered 'basketball' and 'Snoop Dogg' it would have successfully gauged something else entirely...

  20. #60
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    Re: Suit Letter #1

    Quote Originally Posted by ElevenBravo View Post
    However, I bet if I answered 'basketball' and 'Snoop Dogg' it would have successfully gauged something else entirely...
    I knew you were a Native American

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