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  1. #21
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by AFSS5602 View Post
    I want to issue a warning that I wish someone would have given me before I went off to college. UND and Embry Riddle are very good university's. You will receive a top notch aviation education. However the 100k-200k student loan debt WILL leave you with a severe and debilitating handicap once you go out into the real world. Around 10k-12k of your after tax income every year will go toward paying off your loans for 30 years of your life. Add rent/mortgage, utilities, car payments, food, gas, cloths etc... and soon you may find that those large loan payments are putting you way under water. You will be struggling while people who went to the military and other less known smaller colleges will be sitting beside you making the same money with almost/ or possibly NO DEBT.

    For many the debt from UND and Riddle has meant the inability to own a home for a very long time. It also has made saving any money for retirement or a home very difficult if not near impossible.

    Once again, they are very good schools. The problem is that the salaries out there just don't pay well enough on average to cover your loan expenses and life expenses.
    I didn't bother reading the rest of this thread but anyone that has common sense and can do a little math can figure this out. Look at average salaries of the field you are going into and then use your head...I visited Embry Riddle before I joined the Air Force, it is a very nice school. I would hope that anyone who graduated from one of their programs would understand what they are getting themselves into. I joined the military and while I am not a controller and do not regret joining, I would not join again. Maybe the treatment of controllers in the military is a lot different than that of a mechanic. I still would not recommend joining if you want to have a family.

  2. #22
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Well this is quite an interesting thread. Just to give you an idea of where I am coming from:
    Riddle CTI Grad with less then 25k in debt.

    Riddle is know to have the highest average student debt of any undergraduate school in the nation. Last I heard the average was over 100k upon graduation.

    There are a few things said in earlier post that I take issue with. First, someone said that you should not waste money on an aviation degree in general, but instead get a degree that would be more helpful as a back up.

    So I ask, what degree is that? I have 20 high school friends who just graduated from college (non-aviation) and none of them are able to find a job (a few exceptions). At least not one that they like. I on the other hand, just got an Airport Operations Job, while also being in the ATC application process. Maybe the aviation industry is not paying out the A$$ right now, but at least they are paying.

    At the airport I work at, I see new hires being trained (in various positions, some better then others) on a regular basis.

    I guess my point is, there is no other industry I would rather be in right now then Aviation.

    Now as for the fact that Embry-Riddle is so expensive. Well this is true, and it is a decision that each person has to make based on their personal situation.

    For some people (like me) joining the military was never an option. I have the utmost respect for those who do, but I would not fit well in that kind of institution.

    And from an ATC perspective, I would say that there is very little advantage gained from going to Embry-Riddle verse going to another, more affordable CTI school. But if you want a career as an engineer or any other number of aviation positions, having an ERAU degree does put you at an advantage to others.

  3. #23
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by JosueZQ8 View Post
    Wow......I couldn't imagine being in that boat!

    Makes my $11,000 worth of debt for CCBC seem like a kick in the bucket! Of course, there are other expenses I paid for already....gen ed night classes at the college back home, private pilot's cert., living expenses out here, etc. So the total after it's all said and done will probably be around $25K.

    not too bad.

  4. #24
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    I finished BVI this past December. I didn't actually graduate because I didnt want to drop the money for a pilots license. Got my CTO Dec 3rd. Applied for the CTO announcement December 4th and i'm going to OKC Tuesday. I made the decision not to get my private after my 2nd semester, so I saved myself some money by not taking gen ed classes. Was it a good decision to spend $10000 for a CTO? Well i'm going to OKC next week and people from the previous semester haven't even gotten class dates yet. Yeah I'll have to pay off some debt, but in the long run, I'm starting my job earlier and in my current situation, I really need that.

    Oh and for all of you still at the Beav. Tell Jim Scott Andy Rhodes says hello.

  5. #25
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    i know a navy controller who is stuck deep in iraq processing war prisoners with the marines. its not exactly what he signed up for. something to think about.

  6. #26
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by zoz02 View Post
    go in the military, get trained as an ATC *navy in my case. Buy a house during the next housing boom. Then get your bachelors while your in. Then get out and work on your masters, which they pay me around 1000 a month after tuition to do, then claim unemployement for 18 months in the next recession. Then get picked up FAA.

    Or

    go to a CTI school, attain 60-150000 in debt. Then go bankrupt, then don't get hired by the FAA because they won't give you a security clearance.
    that would only happen if you default on your loans.

  7. #27
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Too bad. Those are the only two choices. Pick one, quick.
    Pan pan?

  8. #28
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeppelinpilot View Post
    Well this is quite an interesting thread. Just to give you an idea of where I am coming from:
    Riddle CTI Grad with less then 25k in debt.

    Riddle is know to have the highest average student debt of any undergraduate school in the nation. Last I heard the average was over 100k upon graduation.
    I recently graduated ERAU (May 09). The average student debt is the highest in the nation but it is actually around 50k, not 100k like you mentioned. However, most people do end up with over 100k in debt from Riddle. This is because those with little to no debt get factored into the equation with all the ones in higher amounts of debt.

    Even though I am one of those who graduated with a large amount of debt, I have no regrets about attending ERAU. It was a great education and an even better experience.

    On a side note, The Wall Street Journal reported on 9/23/09 that the newly minted FAA-NATCA agreement includes a base pay increase by "an average of roughly $45,000 over [a] three-year period" for new hires. More reason to become impatient with this hiring process.

    Here's the link: Air-Traffic Controllers Ratify Labor Pact - WSJ.com

  9. #29
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    I LOL at this thread. You are obviously doing something wrong. If you are out of state yest tuition is absurd. But think...What will it take to get state residency to lower your tuition by 50%? Thats what I did. Sure the 1st two semesters are about 20g's but the next semester after I gained residency was 5000. Half of what out of state. Plus i agree with most ppl on here saying, that if you cannot afford a big whoop dee doo college, well not everyone can have the best. Granted we all get the same training in the end, but the quality is much higher at those "expensive" schools.

  10. #30
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Any degree (at least a bachelors) is worth something. People should go to the school that they think is the best for them. Although money of course is a big factor, it should be number 3 or 4 on your list when choosing a school.

  11. #31
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by Undctiatc View Post
    I LOL at this thread. You are obviously doing something wrong. If you are out of state yest tuition is absurd. But think...What will it take to get state residency to lower your tuition by 50%? Thats what I did. Sure the 1st two semesters are about 20g's but the next semester after I gained residency was 5000. Half of what out of state. Plus i agree with most ppl on here saying, that if you cannot afford a big whoop dee doo college, well not everyone can have the best. Granted we all get the same training in the end, but the quality is much higher at those "expensive" schools.

    lol im laughing my a$$ off too. it reminds me of the people who get their houses foreclosed on because they don't realize they cant afford a $800,000 house while making 29k. But at least there warning others about it and not encouraging people to join them.

    The school you go to has nothing to do with the education you will walk away with, if you want to learn you will pick up all the knowledge that is out there even beyond what any school (community college or world renown) will show you.

  12. #32
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    I don't normally like bringing up old threads, but this one kind of got to me. In regard to the OP, it is nice to hear your opinion, but trying to convince someone not to go the CTI route is not that smart. Obviously by going to a 4 years school it will cost more. Some people value having a bachelors degree in hand and that is why they go to a 4 year CTI school. Saying that someone will be in debt from 100K to 150K, thats true if you go to ERAU with no financial aid. You can go to UND and get tuition for about $6500. Compared to a lot of public schools, that is cheap for tuition and trust me, you will get your money's worth, I know, I am a CTI student at UND.

    You mention salaries do not pay well, within 2 thru 3 years, someone with no experience can be making over 100K at a level 12 facility. IMO, that is a good salary. People that make mistakes are the ones that go purchase a house, car, and everything else one could want right after leaving the academy. They they wash out at their facility and are jobless.

    It is a shame that you did not realize that you would be in debt after CTI school. It seems like cost of college would be the first thing you would look at.

    With the OP, I understand your "warning", but don't try and say UND or ERAU or any other 4 year program for that matter is a mistake. If someone wants a good education with bachelors degree, then that's the route to go.

    I'm trying to defend all of the current, past, and future CTI students. CTI is the right way to go, and right now, unless you want to join the military, it is really the only smart way. Yeah it will cost you time and money, you will still get a formal education in an area that will greatly help you both in and outside of the aviation career field.

    That is all.

  13. #33
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    I don't really see the value in a 4-year degree when CTI can be done in 2 years or less.

  14. #34
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    I'm starting CCBC this fall and after I graduate and apply I could very well be at the academy by the time someone graduates a 4 year program that started at the same time.

  15. #35
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead0863 View Post
    CTI is the right way to go, and right now, unless you want to join the military, it is really the ONLY way.

    That is all.
    Agreed and fixed.

  16. #36
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Im not sure on the exact detials but there is a program you can apply to if you have a federal job that will base your monthly loan payments on your income and will forgive your loans after 10 years I believe. Like I said, I dont know the exact detials so i may be off a bit but i am positive there is some program like this.

  17. #37
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Quote Originally Posted by GolfJuliet View Post
    I'm starting CCBC this fall and after I graduate and apply I could very well be at the academy by the time someone graduates a 4 year program that started at the same time.
    I agree with your statement. I am not sure how CCBC works, in terms of how the classes are spread out, but here at UND, your first 2 years are mainly just general ed. courses. Then your last two are mainly ATC related including 4 semesters of tower, 3 semesters or radar, and 1 semester of non-radar.

    Aside from that, I only have two years left until I graduate, and it looks like you do too. I can tell you that I am pretty happy to be in school now then play this waiting game right now. Hopefully in two years the hiring rate and training rate will be back up.

  18. #38
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Smitty. If that is true it would be pretty awesome. I'm sitting on about 100k in student loans right now. If this program you say is out there it could help out greatly.

  19. #39
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    Ill def do some research and try to find a link and get more information on this and post it

  20. #40
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    Re: CTI/Aviation Degree Warning

    I go to Beaver and when im done with school I will only have about $6000 in student loans. I currently only pay $2000 out of pocket a semester for school rent and utilities. So I would say cti is the way to go but if they require a pilot license get it at your home airport first because getting it at the school cost big bucks if your out-of-state.

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