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  1. #21
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Yes, and yes. Essentially they both get you to the same place, you can even do both. Get picked up OTS while attending CTI school!

  2. #22
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote Originally Posted by ksheyman View Post
    I like your style, rossta. I'll buy you a drink when you get to seattle (i live there).
    Boo yeah. I'm holding ya to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogersjf View Post
    If you apply yourself you should have no problem at OKC. I believe the current rate for all people at OKC is above 95%, it is really when you get to your facility to checkout where alot of people wash out.
    That jives with everything I've heard from controllers. There seems to be lots of frustration, among controllers and facility management both, that the point at which people wash out has been moved from the Academy to the facilities. It increases the burden for everybody and was a ploy to make FAA hiring numbers look better.

    Here are the steps(from the faa)
    ...
    Well said. We should probably sticky those.

    Quote Originally Posted by tulsahockey19 View Post
    So would it be better to go to a CTI school then get picked up off the street? is that what (OTS) stands for?
    Gah. I don't really mind if people ask questions that have been asked in other threads a while back, but when it's being discussed just a few posts earlier... come on, man, read it a little first.
    Pan pan?

  3. #23
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    [/QUOTE]
    If you apply yourself you should have no problem at OKC. I believe the current rate for all people at OKC is above 95%, it is really when you get to your facility to checkout where alot of people wash out.
    is a long wait currently (9-18 months). Hope it helps.[/QUOTE]

    I wasnt asking if I'll make it...but thanks for the encouragement. My question was in reference to the above post that said only 20% of OTS pass. Comparitively what percent of CTI pass?

  4. #24
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote Originally Posted by 007hamster View Post
    I'm not taking summer classes, but I've got 110 with George in Fall... :/
    Comollo is the man!

    And I have a funny feeling that OTS hiring is going to slowly dwindle to little or none in the near future (few years timespan). But if you believed in all my funny feelings you'd probably be in pretty bad shape.

    Yet another thread spoon feeding the answers to what has already been posted somewhere on this site countless times. Woohoo.

  5. #25
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaGolf View Post

    And I have a funny feeling that OTS hiring is going to slowly dwindle to little or none in the near future (few years timespan). But if you believed in all my funny feelings you'd probably be in pretty bad shape.

    I was told by the husband of a current controller at Crystal tower in Minneapolis the other day that the word through the facility is that PUBNAT 8 was the last public announcement. I don't know where they got their information from, but every other piece of information I have gotten from this source has become fact. Figured I would add that in case some of you are still debating between CTI and OTS. Even if PUBNAT 8 isn't the last announcement for the public, if rumors are already flying about final PUBNATs, the actual last one may not be too far into the future. Some of you who are still young enough may want to start thinking of investing in an education if you are committed to this profession.
    Graduated from The University of North Dakota: May 2010
    Charleston Air Force Base/Int'l ATCT/TRACON (CHS): March 2011 - June 2015
    Charlotte Douglas Int'l ATCT/TRACON (CLT): June 2015 - Present

  6. #26
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    i was told by several of my instructors that pubnats are done.

    Probably because all the newer cti schools are going to be releasing their first cti grad classes by the end of this year so i'm pretty sure that the OTS numbers are going to Bottleneck down to nothing.The FAA starts keeping track of cti students as soon as you enroll in your first cti classes so i think they wont take OTS unless they Cant fill the expected spots with all the waves of cti grads that passed the at-sat.

    lets face it its easier to train students who were forced to study the FAR|aim and got to train in simulators and were mentored by controllers for 2 years.
    i know some clowns might slip through the system but im guessing that will be a really small percentage.

  7. #27
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rogersjf
    If you apply yourself you should have no problem at OKC. I believe the current rate for all people at OKC is above 95%, it is really when you get to your facility to checkout where alot of people wash out.

    That jives with everything I've heard from controllers. There seems to be lots of frustration, among controllers and facility management both, that the point at which people wash out has been moved from the Academy to the facilities. It increases the burden for everybody and was a ploy to make FAA hiring numbers look better.
    if i can add some more word of mouth, we talked to a few veteran controllers when our class toured sea-tac tower. they said that back in the day, before the AT-SAT, the academy WAS the 'test'. they made it so you would wash out if you weren't the right kind of person to be a controller. now they have the AT-SAT for that purpose so they changed the academy to be easier. that might be why some controllers disagree with the 95% number. it didn't used to be that way.

  8. #28
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote Originally Posted by DE_UND_CTI View Post
    I would also like to add something about the OTS numbers. Two days ago my ATC professor for this semester said that when he went to the FAA/CTI conference, the FAA guys stated that the current OTS wash out rate at the academy is 90%. This is adding to the decision to eliminate OTS listings. It's costing them too much money to try and train people who are simply going to fail. It much different story for CTI and VRA students, but the 95% pass rate for all people is far off. The FAA guys also stated that they have been having problems with OTS people getting all the way through the academy and then quitting near the last day, all so that they could rack up the per diem. Of course this adds to the very high percentage of OTS wash outs at the academy, but needless to say, the academy isn't a picnic for OTS students with no prior aviation experience.
    I hate to think about all those washouts clogging up the system, especially when a lot of us spent a lot of effort, time, and money to get a CTI...just to wait in line behind a lot of people that won't make it anyway.

  9. #29
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote Originally Posted by DE_UND_CTI View Post
    I would also like to add something about the OTS numbers. Two days ago my ATC professor for this semester said that when he went to the FAA/CTI conference, the FAA guys stated that the current OTS wash out rate at the academy is 90%.
    ...
    The FAA guys also stated that they have been having problems with OTS people getting all the way through the academy and then quitting near the last day, all so that they could rack up the per diem.
    Geez, how many crazy rumors can you cram into one post? I'll give you an entire month's pay if you can provide proof that any of that is true. "Yeah, but I heard from the friend of a guy who works at..." yeah yeah yeah. We've seen stories that start like that come and go on the forums about a billion times.

    OTS washout rates are not 90%. Thinking about how illogical that is for about ten seconds should set off your BS alarms. If it were the case, PUBNATs would've ended after the very first one. And OTS hires aren't going through the Academy and quitting the last day to pick up the "per diem". Do you seriously believe that someone would wait through over a year of hiring, make it through extensive psychological, medical and security screenings, move to Oklahoma City and work their way through Academy classes in order to collect a paycheck in the 30's for a few months? I don't know what's more ludicrous, that somebody made up that rumor or that a few people seem to actually believe it. You're throwing your critical thinking to the wind.

    The only thing you're even close on is the slowing of PUBNAT openings, but that's no surprise. Air traffic is down. Less people are flying. Retirements have also slowed, both due to the economy (controllers needing to earn more as their investments dried up) and the recently-improved contract. On top of that, the system has become clogged with trainees, so it can't accommodate as many. So the FAA has adjusted their hiring goals accordingly, and of course they're going to drop applications for the least desirable hiring pool. But that's not news, that knowledge has been around for months now.

    It much different story for CTI and VRA students, but the 95% pass rate for all people is far off.
    Not really, it's not, at least not for CTI. Look, I know that at your school they told you that you'd be training on "state of the art simulators, receiving the finest training available in air traffic blah blah blah." Yeah, CTI educations are nice, you get a degree, you get some idea of what you'll be doing, and at some places you might pick up a pilot license too. All good things. But spend some time talking to a trainer and you're going to find that once you start at your facility, things are pretty much the same between OTS and CTI hires. Success/failure rates, longevity, all of it.

    Why? Because CTI education is not air traffic control experience. You're learning out a book. Yeah, it's beneficial, and yeah, it may give you a little bit of an academic edge, but neither of those will make you into a good controller.

    Don't believe me? Track down some trainers or developmentals, guys who are actually in there, doing the job, instead of hearing third hand misinformation. Don't buy into everything you hear.
    Pan pan?

  10. #30
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    I was simply trying to relay information that was given to us from our department head to some of my peers who may not be updated as much by their faculty. I have read many comments on stuck mic saying how much they are kept in the dark at their schools and don't even hear of the graduation/hiring process until their last semester. I thought some of the numbers were a little exaggerated when I heard them as well, but I just wanted to pass on what I was told. I'm not trying to spread malicious rumors. I'm sorry for pissing you off.
    Graduated from The University of North Dakota: May 2010
    Charleston Air Force Base/Int'l ATCT/TRACON (CHS): March 2011 - June 2015
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  11. #31
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote Originally Posted by DE_UND_CTI View Post
    I would also like to add something about the OTS numbers. Two days ago my ATC professor for this semester said that when he went to the FAA/CTI conference, the FAA guys stated that the current OTS wash out rate at the academy is 90%. This is adding to the decision to eliminate OTS listings. It's costing them too much money to try and train people who are simply going to fail. It much different story for CTI and VRA students, but the 95% pass rate for all people is far off. The FAA guys also stated that they have been having problems with OTS people getting all the way through the academy and then quitting near the last day, all so that they could rack up the per diem. Of course this adds to the very high percentage of OTS wash outs at the academy, but needless to say, the academy isn't a picnic for OTS students with no prior aviation experience.

    I'm curious, who is that?? Can't be Gary, he wouldn't be caught dead at a conference haha. Good info though!
    11/04/2008 - AT-SAT - WQ
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    03/22/2011 - Made Referral List for CO and MT!
    04/12/2011 - Received the EMAIL! Selected for Montana!
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    01/09/2012 - Received the Call for a 1/24/2012 Class Date!!!!
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  12. #32
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Paul told us that information.
    Graduated from The University of North Dakota: May 2010
    Charleston Air Force Base/Int'l ATCT/TRACON (CHS): March 2011 - June 2015
    Charlotte Douglas Int'l ATCT/TRACON (CLT): June 2015 - Present

  13. #33
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    OTS washout rates are not 90%. Thinking about how illogical that is for about ten seconds should set off your BS alarms. If it were the case, PUBNATs would've ended after the very first one. And OTS hires aren't going through the Academy and quitting the last day to pick up the "per diem". Do you seriously believe that someone would wait through over a year of hiring, make it through extensive psychological, medical and security screenings, move to Oklahoma City and work their way through Academy classes in order to collect a paycheck in the 30's for a few months? I don't know what's more ludicrous, that somebody made up that rumor or that a few people seem to actually believe it. You're throwing your critical thinking to the wind.
    well, maybe these people are not going into it JUST to get the per diem, but instead deciding early on at OKC that ATC isn't for them, but then sticking it out to the end of the academy anyway because they need the money. that seems more likely than the other reason...

  14. #34
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    That's exactly what was said by my professor. I guess I just didn't elaborate enough on it.
    Graduated from The University of North Dakota: May 2010
    Charleston Air Force Base/Int'l ATCT/TRACON (CHS): March 2011 - June 2015
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  15. #35
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    Re: Timeline for CTI

    Quote Originally Posted by DE_UND_CTI View Post
    That's exactly what was said by my professor. I guess I just didn't elaborate enough on it.
    haha i thought it was pretty obvious that's what you meant. rossta is right, no one would actually go through the whole process just for the per diem :')

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