Formation flights

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  1. #1
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    Formation flights

    Hello, I am a newbe ATCer and want to know the differences between a standard and non-standard formation flight. If you have any resources I would
    greatly appreciate them. Thanks

  2. #2
    The Heatles's Avatar
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    Re: Formation flights

    A standard formation flight is within 1 mile laterally and 100 ft vertically of the flight lead. non-standard is anything other than that...

  3. #3
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    Re: Formation flights

    So although unlikely, is it conceivable that you may have up to 10 aircraft in the same 1000ft altitude block while controlling a standard formation flight?

  4. #4
    djmodifyd
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    Re: Formation flights

    Quote Originally Posted by newtoatc View Post
    So although unlikely, is it conceivable that you may have up to 10 aircraft in the same 1000ft altitude block while controlling a standard formation flight?
    yes...or just add 1 mile to your normal separation....
    so if you usually need 3 miles/1000ft, you need 4 miles/1000ft if a standard flight (of whatever number...largest i've seen is 6, i don't know how large they actually go)

  5. #5
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    Re: Formation flights

    Okay, so what I gather is that you can have multiple aircraft within a standard formation flight assigned to one altitude. If it is one flight of however many you would add 1 mile to standard radar separation from any other traffic. Typically standard flights fly in a V-type configuration. Are there times that they will fly in a longitudinal type pattern as long as they are within one mile of the leading flight member who may not necessarily be the flight lead? Or would this be considered a non-standard formation?

  6. #6
    djmodifyd
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    Re: Formation flights

    Quote Originally Posted by newtoatc View Post
    Okay, so what I gather is that you can have multiple aircraft within a standard formation flight assigned to one altitude. If it is one flight of however many you would add 1 mile to standard radar separation from any other traffic. Typically standard flights fly in a V-type configuration. Are there times that they will fly in a longitudinal type pattern as long as they are within one mile of the leading flight member who may not necessarily be the flight lead? Or would this be considered a non-standard formation?
    yes you are correct..

    and the latter part to that question is beyond me...they just tell me either standard or non-standard...i don't know where they get that from

  7. #7
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    Re: Formation flights

    It's beyond me too. I guess it's whatever they want to call it? Thanks for the info.

  8. #8
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    Re: Formation flights

    they don't always fly in a V-formation. they sometimes fly in a left or right echelon formation. 1st guy in the front left/right position, then back and to the left/right they go behind the leader. they'll set them up so the leader is in the position to make their next turn without turning in front of number 2. ie: the next turn is gonna be a right turn, the wingmen will be back and left of the leader.

    if u have 2 standard formations then add 2 miles. 1 mile for each formation.

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    Re: Formation flights

    newtoatc...

    you may be "new to atc" but perhaps you should just look in the 7110.65. it clearly states in the P/CG.

  10. #10
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    Re: Formation flights

    Can someone tell me if you still are required to use the word "flight" when controlling a flight of aircraft?

  11. #11
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    Re: Formation flights

    Quote Originally Posted by lesmiserables1 View Post
    Can someone tell me if you still are required to use the word "flight" when controlling a flight of aircraft?
    just use the callsign printed on the strip.

    Quote Originally Posted by newtoatc View Post
    So although unlikely, is it conceivable that you may have up to 10 aircraft in the same 1000ft altitude block while controlling a standard formation flight?
    that many usually don't depart together. they come off in trail and fly non-standard until they form up. its usually a big mess stretching 10+ miles and with altitudes varying by thousands of feet like a big snake crossing the scope until they tighten things up to standard. as long as you're not busy its fun to see.
    Last edited by otterstrom; 03-04-2010 at 05:41 PM.

  12. #12
    Radarluv's Avatar
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    Re: Formation flights

    Quote Originally Posted by lesmiserables1 View Post
    Can someone tell me if you still are required to use the word "flight" when controlling a flight of aircraft?

    Not required, and it is actually incorrect to use the word "flight" in the call sign. Example- Viper22 is the call sign, 2/F16/P is the type aircraft. Use the word flight on a traffic call- "traffic 2 o'clock, 4 miles, flight of 2 F16s"

  13. #13
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    Re: Formation flights

    i'm currently writing a book. character is in AF & flies B-2. hopefully someone will help me with these questions.

    do you break formation if an enemy is approaching?
    do you have tactical fighter with them?

  14. #14
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    Re: Formation flights

    Can someone confirm with me that a standard flight of two and a non standard flight of two, one mile in trail, are the same thing...

  15. #15
    Usm4r1n3's Avatar
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    Re: Formation flights

    Controlled as one. Non standard is just a factor in separating from the last member in the flight.

  16. #16
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    Re: Formation flights

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that in both scenarios, you're only separating the lead aircraft by 6 miles, in regards to other ifr aircraft.

  17. #17
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    Re: Formation flights

    Standard formation you seperate by 6. For nonstandard you seperate 5 + however far away the wingman is....or 5 miles on the front and back aircraft plus everything between for in trail formations.

    Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk

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    Re: Formation flights

    I actually found a reference on this....listen up cuz I'm sure not a lot of people realize this with flights. A standard formation means everyone in the flight is within 1 mile of the lead and 100 feet vertical. Where non standard is different is that each element of the flight can be up to 500 feet vertical and how ever many miles in trail they request. This is why you typically always see a non standard flight in a block altitude if they are a flight of two and.report one mile in trail. What makes them non standard is their vertical separation in that scenario

  19. #19
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    Re: Formation flights

    5−5−8. ADDITIONAL SEPARATION FOR
    FORMATION FLIGHTS
    Because of the distance allowed between formation
    aircraft and lead aircraft, additional separation is
    necessary to ensure the periphery of the formation is
    adequately separated from other aircraft, adjacent
    airspace, or obstructions. Provide supplemental
    separation for formation flights as follows:
    a. Separate a standard formation flight by adding
    1 mile to the appropriate radar separation minima.
    REFERENCE−
    FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 2−1−13 , Formation Flights.
    FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 5−5−1 , Application.
    FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 7−7−3 , Separation.
    P/CG Term− Formation Flight.
    b. Separate two standard formation flights from
    each other by adding 2 miles to the appropriate
    separation minima.

    c. Separate a nonstandard formation flight by
    applying the appropriate separation minima to the
    perimeter of the airspace encompassing the
    nonstandard formation or from the outermost aircraft
    of the nonstandard formation whichever applies.
    d. If necessary for separation between a
    nonstandard formation and other aircraft, assign an
    appropriate beacon code to each aircraft in the
    formation or to the first and last aircraft in-trail.
    NOTE−
    The additional separation provided in Paragraph 5−5−8,
    Additional Separation for Formation Flights, is not
    normally added to wake turbulence separation when a
    formation is following a heavier aircraft since none of the
    formation aircraft are likely to be closer to the heavier
    aircraft than the lead aircraft (to which the prescribed
    wake turbulence separation has been applied).
    REFERENCE−
    FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 9−2−13 , Military Aerial Refueling.

  20. #20
    NovemberEcho's Avatar
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    Re: Formation flights

    Wxdude where you getting 6 miles from? A standard formation is separated from other IFR aircraft by 4 miles. A nonstandard you separate from other IFR aircraft by 5 miles.

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