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  1. #21
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    What you guys (gals) do is amazing. I really appreciate the explanations. Talking with actual controllers really helps me conceptualize what is happening, and removes a lot of the mystery. As you know, radio communications is very intimidating to many pilots who don't do it for a living. Thanks again for all the feedback!

  2. #22
    Jax
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    There's nothing wrong with using November. Nowhere in the .65, or anywhere else will you find anything saying otherwise. As for that nonsense about the good old days.....yeah, nonsense. I've been working at N90 since 1991 and it's always been used. Just as much back then as it is now. Why is this such a big deal? making a storm out of a glass of water. There are way too many other more important pressing matters to worry about when flying, or controlling than to be nit picking whether you get called by your make or November.

  3. #23
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    The book only requires us to say November. Anything more is a treat. You could be flying while a noob is training and thats that. Either way, we get it. Sometimes were just too busy to look down or worry about type, more so seperating AC.

  4. #24
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPOONY90 View Post
    Cause I always call a Mooney a bonanza and vice versa
    LOL

  5. #25
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by NovemberEcho View Post
    Only ones I call Cessna are C525’s cause they should feel bad.
    LMAO!

  6. #26
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by NovemberEcho View Post
    I use all the information I need, which is that your callsign starts with November. Only ones I call Cessna are C525’s cause they should feel bad.
    They like twin Cessna even less.

  7. #27
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by j_time41 View Post
    In the 4th line the destination being displayed is required. If there is a speed or heading assigned, this takes the place of the destination. There is no way to only allow type to be displayed continuously, if at all, constantly in the 4th line. We have to press another button on a seperate keyboard to see type acft on the 4th line, then when we let off the button, it goes back to the destination (or heading or speed, depending if they have one).
    I have no idea what kind of plane any airliner on my scope is either, only time I use this button is for issuing traffic advisories.
    It is possible to have type default in fourth line. It may be your center requirement to keep destination in fourth but there is no .65 requirement. I know people who run types in default, some that run destination, and some that don’t run a fourth line at all

  8. #28
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewdude View Post
    It is possible to have type default in fourth line. It may be your center requirement to keep destination in fourth but there is no .65 requirement. I know people who run types in default, some that run destination, and some that don’t run a fourth line at all
    4th line.... I’m curious what that looks like. We only use 2 in our Tracon with the Y and H block time sharing info

  9. #29
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    AAL2345 AID
    320T295 Assigned altitude/ mode c
    67A 495 CID Ground Speed
    KJFK Destination (can be type)

  10. #30
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    DAL810
    330^215
    234 360
    H330 S300

    we can also input assigned heading and assigned airspeed in the fourth line. Then toggle back and forth between that info and destination/type (whatever you’re displaying)

  11. #31
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    Man all that seems too complicated for me lol

  12. #32
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    I totally get it now. I see why controllers sometimes don't refer to type. It is because its optional for controllers to do so. Its like when pilots call a tower and don't tell the tower that they have the current information. Its not illegal for pilots to do that, sometimes they forget, sometimes they are overwhelmed, sometimes they don't have ATIS frequency, sometimes they are just lazy. I always try to tell tower that I have the current info, not because its mandatory, but because its good form.

    For fun I looked up JO 7110.65X section 2-4-20(a)(1) (Aircraft Identification). (Yes, for fun.) Basically, it says that controllers are supposed to use "November" when ATC is initiating communication with US registered aircraft. However, it says that the controller may state the aircraft type, the model, the manufacturer's name....if used by the pilot on the initial or subsequent call.

    The use of the word "may" indicates that using type is optional, and at the discretion of the controller. However, in that same section there several Examples, and all of the examples show the controller using the type when responding to pilot's initial or subsequent call: (i.e. "Jet Commander One, Two Three Four Papa"; "Bonanza One Two Three Four Tango"; & "Sikorsky Six Three Eight Mike Foxtrot").
    Last edited by Devil07; 08-11-2018 at 04:56 PM. Reason: punctuation

  13. #33
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    I work in a center. My knowledge of aircraft makes and models is limited, and it's likely to remain that way. You are a blip with a ground speed and a climb/descent rate to me, just like you would be if you were flying for an airline.

    If I know what your type is or if you check on with it, I might use it. I'm not going to guess if I don't know. And if I'm truly busy, I'm not going to research your aircraft type, especially when searches for some types yields a couple dozen variants by multiple manufacturers.

    You should be listening for your last three. It should make you unique in my airspace, and if it doesn't, I'll tell you and use your full callsign.

  14. #34
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    Re: Why ATC Doesn't Use Make when Calling Anymore?

    I totally understand. This was very educational. Thanks!

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