2nd Chances

alehrkwa

Newcomer
Mar 25, 2014
18
0
1
St. Louis, MO
I washed in very early 2015, have reapplied at every opportunity and haven't been referred again. There ARE other jobs where ATC knowledge is useful. It was my dream too, but I've just decided to move on.
 

PilotController

Newcomer
Jun 11, 2017
7
1
3
A lot of people don't want to join the military. I never even considered it when I went to a CTI school. I wanted the typical college experience and liked the school. Military isn't for everyone.
Air traffic control isn't for everyone either

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

Macharena

Junior Member
Nov 21, 2013
90
0
6
I'm also a washout who went to CTI in CA. Luckily with the BOG waiver and financial aid...I was paid to go to CTI since my tips from poker dealing weren't reported. Instead of putting myself in a rut after failing, I got my job back, enrolled in school (pretty proud of my calculus grade last semester), and I'll be pursuing accounting...a career in demand that actually has weekends, nights, and holidays off.

Of course ATC is still my dream. I'm not going to deny that there hasn't been a day since failing that I haven't thought about it. But I'm 30 and I don't have time to waste on "what ifs". I'm not going to use an excuse like saying the third party companies *caugh CAMI caugh* and others hired by the FAA who are hoping you fail in order to keep their job security has an effect on passing rates.

Instead I'll just keep pushing forward. Apply to the bid knowing the chances are slim. Really you should wait to apply when ATC goes private. And if you can get an Air Force recruiter to put on your contract for ATC, then go that route. I almost went this route but I think 30 is pushin it. And if that day comes where there's another interview...say you never gave up. No excuses.

Oh and BTW Kim told me the same thing about ppl who had second chances. Still have my doubts.
 

Jabberfest

Trusted Member
Mar 25, 2015
489
2
18
Los Angeles, CA
These people can suit themselves if the only reason for not saving tens of thousands of dollars and preparing themselves for their dream job is because they "don't want to". Definitely helps the CTI schools and the college loan sharks.
I went to a community college, took advantage of financial aid and paid basically nothing. Only thing I had to pay for was my books, most of which I bought used off of Amazon, so I spent maybe a few hundred bucks total over the course of two years. I agree it's a bad idea to go into debt for a CTI degree, and certainly plenty of people have, but not all CTI schools and experiences are the same. For me, school was the more practical choice.
 

Jabberfest

Trusted Member
Mar 25, 2015
489
2
18
Los Angeles, CA
I'll have to find the document mentioning it, but academy washouts are eliminated from all further consideration. Unless you fell through the cracks, you will not be referred or offered a TOL down the line.

I have a friend who applied three times after washing from his facility. He was accepted each time, and he even took the AT-SAT and later the AT-SA. But when offers are sent out, he was denied. They don't offer a reason, but eventually through some digging on the other forum at PointSixtyFive, we found buried in an FAA memo the rule barring academy and facility washouts (this is dependent on the NEST, etc.) from employment.
It doesn't make sense to me why the FAA would pay for someone to take the ATSAT or ATSA if they already know there's no chance of hiring that person. The odds of getting rehired definitely aren't great, but if there was truly a rule that barred washouts from employment, why even let them reapply, retest, etc? Just doesn't make sense (then again, it IS the government). That said, I know of Academy washouts who have been rehired, though none recently. Things have probably changed, but I'm pretty sure washing out isn't an automatic DQ.
 

SierraZulu

Trusted Member
Aug 2, 2008
369
5
18
I stand corrected, I had no idea so many people were able to go to CTI school and finish in 9 months or two years while paying next to nothing. Very valid points.

To the person who posted that they didn't want to join the military because of horror stories of hazing and trainees killing themselves in basic training...Not sure what to say to that. My experience in the military was great.

Bottom line is, if you can apply as a CTI graduate without overextending or overcommitting yourself to one career, then I say that is a good move. I also know dozens and dozens of veterans who had great enlistments, made tons of money and are doing what they love.
 

Sierra Kilo

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2016
107
0
16
I stand corrected, I had no idea so many people were able to go to CTI school and finish in 9 months or two years while paying next to nothing. Very valid points.

To the person who posted that they didn't want to join the military because of horror stories of hazing and trainees killing themselves in basic training...Not sure what to say to that. My experience in the military was great.

Bottom line is, if you can apply as a CTI graduate without overextending or overcommitting yourself to one career, then I say that is a good move. I also know dozens and dozens of veterans who had great enlistments, made tons of money and are doing what they love.
By far the BEST decision regarding CTI school, would be to major in something non-ATC and minor in ATC. You graduate with a decent Plan-B, and still get the CTI recommendation to bypass the Bio-Q.

A full blown ATC degree is pretty useless, and while you can always find an aviation job with it, every interview you're going to hear "so are you still thinking about Air Traffic Control in the future?"
 

laskodell

Newcomer
Jul 10, 2017
6
0
1
I stand corrected, I had no idea so many people were able to go to CTI school and finish in 9 months or two years while paying next to nothing. Very valid points.

To the person who posted that they didn't want to join the military because of horror stories of hazing and trainees killing themselves in basic training...Not sure what to say to that. My experience in the military was great.

Bottom line is, if you can apply as a CTI graduate without overextending or overcommitting yourself to one career, then I say that is a good move. I also know dozens and dozens of veterans who had great enlistments, made tons of money and are doing what they love.
Happy to hear that your experience in the military was great and I'm sure it is for most people (genuine comment, not trying to be sarcastic). I do understand that hazing incidents are not the norm and suicides even less so. But for me personally, the thought of putting myself in that type of a situation where somebody could potentially do that to me makes me very wary. Plus I should mention that I am a minority so the fear of discrimination is there too.
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
68
48
Long Island
Happy to hear that your experience in the military was great and I'm sure it is for most people (genuine comment, not trying to be sarcastic). I do understand that hazing incidents are not the norm and suicides even less so. But for me personally, the thought of putting myself in that type of a situation where somebody could potentially do that to me makes me very wary. Plus I should mention that I am a minority so the fear of discrimination is there too.
guess you never read about any of the multiple hazing deaths at colleges?
 

Bravo Delta

Trusted Member
Mar 25, 2015
328
1
18
North Carolina
Happy to hear that your experience in the military was great and I'm sure it is for most people (genuine comment, not trying to be sarcastic). I do understand that hazing incidents are not the norm and suicides even less so. But for me personally, the thought of putting myself in that type of a situation where somebody could potentially do that to me makes me very wary. Plus I should mention that I am a minority so the fear of discrimination is there too.
worked atc military 6 years. My units were heavily monitory. The military as a whole is heavily minority. We don't care what race you are. And hazing in aviation units is rarer than a good chain of command.
 

laskodell

Newcomer
Jul 10, 2017
6
0
1
guess you never read about any of the multiple hazing deaths at colleges?
I have. It's sad that there's a wikipedia page dedicated to how many deaths have occurred because of it. The majority of these happen through frats. I never joined a frat in college. Like I said, I wouldn't put myself in a situation where somebody could do that to me.
 

laskodell

Newcomer
Jul 10, 2017
6
0
1
We don't care what race you are.
Tell that to the family of the Muslim kid from that article. Doesn't matter where you go, racism does exist. Doesn't mean it always manifests itself but it's there. Unfortunately for the Muslim kid it did manifest itself.

Again, what I said is just for me because I'm not going to purposefully put myself in a situation where I put myself at somebody else's mercy to be potentially hazed. A lot of people come out of the military with a good experience and that's great. My point in my first comment was to let SZ know that it's not so clear-cut for anyone who wants to become ATC to just join the military. Military is a huge commitment and many sacrifices are involved. Props to anyone who can do it, but it's not for everyone.
 

lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
1,316
33
48
WV
If the worst thing that happens to you in the military is that you were harassed by your peers, it's not great but also not the worst outcome. It's also nice preparation for a career in which you will spend the first 12-36 months wondering whether you'll get to have a career.

I've been to college and graduate school, I've worked air traffic in the Air Force, and I've worked in the FAA. The military was by far the most diverse setting of the bunch. I left because I could make much more money in the FAA and not have to move, but that didn't make the Air Force a bad place to work. Against all the shitty things that being a service member involves, you have: (1) a network of people who will help you acclimate to your new location and become your best friends out of necessity; (2) a steady paycheck and benefits hard to find outside of the federal government; (3) a defined benefit pension after 20 years of service; (4) formal and informal preference for hiring; and (5) free job training worth real money on the outside. If you're not a citizen, you can expedite your naturalization by having at least 12 months of service, as one of my trainers in the tower did.

Right now, getting into the FAA on an open bid is a long shot, no matter who you are. But if you want to work as an air traffic controller and set yourself up for civilian work doing the same thing, the military is a good place to go, and a decent place to stay for a career.
 

Bravo Delta

Trusted Member
Mar 25, 2015
328
1
18
North Carolina
I have. It's sad that there's a wikipedia page dedicated to how many deaths have occurred because of it. The majority of these happen through frats. I never joined a frat in college. Like I said, I wouldn't put myself in a situation where somebody could do that to me.
Just so you know, there is a fare amount of harassment in the faa also
 

laskodell

Newcomer
Jul 10, 2017
6
0
1
Just so you know, there is a fare amount of harassment in the faa also
Understood. Like I said, racism exists everywhere and I've dealt with plenty of it. Unfortunately it's just a fact of life. But hazing is a lot less common in the workplace than it is in fraternities or in the military.
 

SierraZulu

Trusted Member
Aug 2, 2008
369
5
18
I thought I was proficient in cursing but once I got to N90 I realized I was only a mere white belt. I washed out but I think I upped my cursing game and skin thickness to at least blue belt level.

I had a smooth checkout at my next facility, but I remember one of the CPCs tried to :p:p:p:p with me by unplugging and throwing my headset plug on the cab floor. I was like...dude seriously that's all you got!

laskodell...I was fucked with way, way more in the FAA than in the military. just a head's up man.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jax