3 Failed the En Route PV today

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
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OKC
Well someone from the legacy course can confirm but supposedly they didn't have any warm up problems either. So it was new to the ERAM course to have warm ups
So...since you were in this week's class.

Do you feel that the person that failed was having a hard time the whole way thought or was this a surprise?
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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I never liked en-route. I still think no applicant (besides those with experience) should be starting at en-route facilities. Remember, en-routes range from level 10-12.
I'd like to hear you elaborate on this based upon your knowledge of and experience with the en route environment, training programs, and people you've known first hand who have gone through it.
 

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
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OKC
No one off the street has ever been successful at a level 10-12 EnRoute facility.

What are we thinking.
 

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
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16
OKC
Well someone from the legacy course can confirm but supposedly they didn't have any warm up problems either. So it was new to the ERAM course to have warm ups
Nate true. Legacy was also just a bunch of Sups from
The field on TDY giving you a thumbs up.

That is not the case with the current Evals.

We have to ask to use the KSD at the beginning of the problem or loose 8 points. One example of how picky they are now.
 

jtomes

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2010
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You'll be surprised how much the evals were hyped up... yeah they are hard no doubt about it but the evaluators are more then fair and no they don't take 8 points off if you don't ask. They are not unreasonable. Sure if you get two planes close or screw up a clearance they'll fry you... but such is life this is ATC step up to the plate. Run good problems stay calm and don't give them ammo to deduct point. The scenarios are nothing you haven't seen.
 

ineedatc

Trusted Contributor
Dec 14, 2008
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****subscribing**** Very interesting. :) Does anyone think pre-reading the ATC manual before OKC would be helpful? Honestly? The terminology you all are using is Greek to me..still.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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The scenarios are nothing you haven't seen.
I wonder if they're still tweaking it some. Ours were definitely new material. The third one was the toughest scenario we'd ever had. Within about 30 seconds, about 2/3 of the ACL lit up in red conflicts.

Does anyone think pre-reading the ATC manual before OKC would be helpful? Honestly? The terminology you all are using is Greek to me..still.
Not really. It's procedural stuff, and unless you knew what it was talking about, most of it will feel like a foreign language. It's like getting the instruction manual for a computer you don't have. Sort of.

More helpful would be to listen to LiveATC once in a while. I got the app for my phone and would listen to it on the way to work at the airport sometimes, looking up to see who they were talking to. That way you'll be accustomed to what things are supposed to sound like, the general order, that kind of thing. It's even more helpful if you've got a diagram of the airport pulled up so you know which runways and taxiways they're talking about (try AirNav). Before long, you'll be able to follow along entirely in your head.
 

jtomes

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2010
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The scenarios varied... our hardest one was second on the first day. I'm not saying they weren't challenging.. our tough problem started blinking like a Christmas tree as well, wasn't designed to be impossible though, if you can pass the last week sufficiently and keep a cool head on evals you'll be more then ok
 

titans83

Junior Member
Mar 9, 2009
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I hear everyone talking about the percentage of the radar points, but what determines if you get the highest percentage or points possible on a graded? What is the factor they determine if you get the highest percentage possible (ex. In academics, if you pass the test with an 80% or better do you get the maximum points no matter what?). This grading system is completely different from when I did En Route 4 years ago, and it sounds real judgmental on how they can determine a scoring system.
Your overall final grade is divided up like this:

Map Test - 2%
CKT #1 -4%
Non-Radar eval #1 - 7%
Non-Radar eval #2 - 7%
Aircraft Characteristics Test - 4%
CKT #2 - 5%
Radar Checklist Test - 5%
Radar eval #1 - 22%
Radar eval #2 - 22%
Radar eval #3- 22%

For instance, My map test score was a 98. if you take 2% of 98 it's 1.96, which is the amount of points from the map test that will be added to my final grade. You need 70 points total to pass.

I just changed my signature to the rest of the scores ive gotten if you'd like to see more examples
 

jtomes

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2010
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controller knowledge test. based on .65 stuff that was taught in class... aircraft recognition in the en route environment helps a lot.... but seriously performance mainly
 

SCOPED

Senior Analyst
Nov 21, 2010
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controller knowledge test. based on .65 stuff that was taught in class... aircraft recognition in the en route environment helps a lot.... but seriously performance mainly
How many AC do they test you on. At CTI we had 50 GA and about 75 commercial and military AC.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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He was being sarcastic... you don't really use it much at all in the Academy for En Route. You do need to know approximate rates of climb for one portion of a test, but you have plenty of time to go over it in class, and you're only sorting four planes from slowest to fastest. Most are obvious -- single engine pistons are slow, turboprops are faster, then airliners, and finally bizjets and fighters. Knowing characteristics is important later when you're actually working with real traffic, but that's nothing you have to worry about in OKC...

Anyway. You also have to know how many engines and what type are on a few different planes. It's pretty easy stuff. I can't remember how many total, but it sounds like you did much more in CTI than you'll do in the Academy. They're more interested in seeing if you can put together D side skills in something that can be used later.
 

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
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89% and 62%. Lowest single PV score so far 33%. I need 27% on my last problem tomorrow to pass. 6 people still have one left to run.
 

jtomes

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2010
270
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Memphis TN
yeah thats how it was. AS explained that it was in our benefit to have the hardest problem second because its usually your best run in the afternoon because you have the morning problem to warm up... Keep your head up though, go in with a level head tomorrow and you should have no problems