Are you prior military? If so, you should be ashamed of yourself.
The FAA has not fulfilled its obligation to the military and has denied military veterans the legislatively appointed right that earned by serving their nation.
Any Veteran Preference Applicant Make It?
- Thread starter faisal233
- Start date
The FAA has not fulfilled its obligation to the military and has denied military veterans the legislatively appointed right that earned by serving their nation.
Ashamed of myself, for what. Being right? I fail to see how my prior military experience has anything to do with my statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, did not all ex military get preferential treatment in the VRA announcement. That was my point, after that the FAA made a separate announcement for the general public, one in which those ex military who didn't make the cut in the ex military only panel could again apply. You must be one of those that if people don't agree with you then they love the terrorists. Cognitive thought; try it you might like it.
I'm VRA and applied 3 times all the while CTI grads were being selected for states I was choosing.
I'm a veteran (old guy - Vietnam era 5-pointer). Just what "legislatively appointed right" do you think Veteran's Preference means? An automatic hire?
Veteran's Preference works in 2 ways for external hiring (doesn't apply to internal promotions, etc.). When selection is based on rank-ordering on score, either 5 or 10 points is added to the score, and then everyone is ranked on the resulting score. Certain vets - 30% or great compensable disability - go to the top of the list regardless of score (so long as they met the quals, typically, a score of 70). If the agency uses category ranking (which most do, including FAA, as a consequence of a Presidential Memorandum), the applicants are sorted into categories based on scores or other factors (for ATCS, probably combined Biographical Assessment & Cognitive AT-SAT scores), and the vets go to the top of the category in which their score falls. No points are added. CP & CPS (30% or greater compensable disability) go to the very top in their own "super category" so long as they met the minimum quals. Can't bypass a vet without damn good reason in making selections from the band. The selecting official works the top band first (after working the CP & CPS vets), starting with the vets.
So FAA is more than likely following the law, regulation, and OPM policies. Just because the agency chose not to run an announcement for former military controllers under age 31 (e.g., what everyone calls VRA on this discussion board) doesn't mean they've violated veteran's preference law, regulation, or policy.
Four more points. First, the OPM qualifications standard for 2152 has ALWAYS allowed the FAA to require aptitude testing even for those with prior military experience, at its option. Second, the agency has the discretion under delegated examining authority to define what constitutes an "aptitude test" for the occupation. Third, the agency gets to define how that test is administered. Fourth, the agency also gets to define in what sequence it will evaluate minimum qualifications such as citizenship, age, experience/education, and aptitude test. In this announcement, FAA chose to administer the aptitude test in 2 parts, with the 1st part (the Biographical Assessment) coming BEFORE the assessment of education/experience. Moreover, under the veteran's preference policies and statute, the preference doesn't apply until the applicant has met the minimum qualifications. FAA defined some minimum score on the Biographical Assessment; if you didn't hit or score higher than that cut-off, you didn't meet quals. Vet pref doesn't apply in that case. If an applicant doesn't hit the cut-score on AT-SAT, the applicant deosn't meet quals, and vet pref doesn't apply in that case either. Doesn't apply until the quals are met.
Veteran's Preference works in 2 ways for external hiring (doesn't apply to internal promotions, etc.). When selection is based on rank-ordering on score, either 5 or 10 points is added to the score, and then everyone is ranked on the resulting score. Certain vets - 30% or great compensable disability - go to the top of the list regardless of score (so long as they met the quals, typically, a score of 70). If the agency uses category ranking (which most do, including FAA, as a consequence of a Presidential Memorandum), the applicants are sorted into categories based on scores or other factors (for ATCS, probably combined Biographical Assessment & Cognitive AT-SAT scores), and the vets go to the top of the category in which their score falls. No points are added. CP & CPS (30% or greater compensable disability) go to the very top in their own "super category" so long as they met the minimum quals. Can't bypass a vet without damn good reason in making selections from the band. The selecting official works the top band first (after working the CP & CPS vets), starting with the vets.
So FAA is more than likely following the law, regulation, and OPM policies. Just because the agency chose not to run an announcement for former military controllers under age 31 (e.g., what everyone calls VRA on this discussion board) doesn't mean they've violated veteran's preference law, regulation, or policy.
Four more points. First, the OPM qualifications standard for 2152 has ALWAYS allowed the FAA to require aptitude testing even for those with prior military experience, at its option. Second, the agency has the discretion under delegated examining authority to define what constitutes an "aptitude test" for the occupation. Third, the agency gets to define how that test is administered. Fourth, the agency also gets to define in what sequence it will evaluate minimum qualifications such as citizenship, age, experience/education, and aptitude test. In this announcement, FAA chose to administer the aptitude test in 2 parts, with the 1st part (the Biographical Assessment) coming BEFORE the assessment of education/experience. Moreover, under the veteran's preference policies and statute, the preference doesn't apply until the applicant has met the minimum qualifications. FAA defined some minimum score on the Biographical Assessment; if you didn't hit or score higher than that cut-off, you didn't meet quals. Vet pref doesn't apply in that case. If an applicant doesn't hit the cut-score on AT-SAT, the applicant deosn't meet quals, and vet pref doesn't apply in that case either. Doesn't apply until the quals are met.
As a current member of the Navy, who applied for this job and was turned down, I have to agree with you. Some veterans made it through, along with people with no aviation experience. When they do the VRA recruiting bid it will only to be to veterans, so the tables will turn again. As upset as I was to not be selected, this does make sense.
You're going on the assumption they will have a VRA bid again. I've heard they're consolidating all the bids into the one GenPub bid. Also keep in mind VRA is only prior-mil controllers, not all veterans.
VRA bid is not just for prior controllers, at least from when I went through the school house, there were a couple of VRA hires in my class who were mechanics in the military.
Been awhile since I applied so dont recall, you are probably right. I thought those guys said they were VRA hires and they had never been controllers. They may have applied on a different bid.
When i applied back in 08-09 you needed to be a controller to apply VRA. They were even offering 20k bonus for CTO/TRACON holders.
VRA is not a ATC specific term. You can have VRA bids that are not ATC, and this last bid included VRA applicants. VRA is a general term for military veteran hiring and a special selection/preference that goes along with is. Just because the FAA put an additional 52 weeks of military ATC experience into the requirements doesn't make it any more or less VRA.
Now that's what I like to hear. A breakdown of the unflawed system. Complaining gets us no where. If you don't get past the first stage try again. It is what it is and it ain't going to change any time soon.
C
charliezuluatc
Guest
Veteran preference only helps you on your overall score that determines your placement on the list. There is the possibility that non veterans could out rank you on the list.
Candidate #1 would obviously report to the academy prior to candidate #40. Unless there was something delaying them.
I heard that, your veteran preference only helps you for the selection list.
Your academy score/grade is based on your ability. Veteran preference will not help your score at the academy. So if a non military hire out performs you at the academy, then ohh well.
Candidate #1 would obviously report to the academy prior to candidate #40. Unless there was something delaying them.
I heard that, your veteran preference only helps you for the selection list.
Your academy score/grade is based on your ability. Veteran preference will not help your score at the academy. So if a non military hire out performs you at the academy, then ohh well.