California Terminal Wait Times

AprilATC

Newcomer
Jun 18, 2012
11
0
1
All I am saying to you Jess is that your job is not guaranteed because your CTI. As a washout, I can tell you that I have the full backing of management and the confidence from many controllers that I am able to do the job. I have been in the FAA over 4.5 years. You don't stick around 4.5 years and still have a job if you "suck".

In fact, I challenge you to find me a washout from a 10 or higher facility that washed out at a 7 or lower after being given the opportunity. You may find a few, but I guarantee that the statistic for the number of high level washouts that do not make it after transferring to a lower level is far lower than any CTI or OTS statistic. Off the top of my head I can think of 20 people that I know that were offered a lower level tower after failure. The statistic is 100% pass. None have failed that I have met.

So while I understand your frustration in waiting for a job, please DO NOT take your frustration out on those that have worked hard and shown their potential.

Side note: *I am hesitant to post this because I do not want to come off sounding entitled myself, however after many posts in several threads degrading washouts I had to put in my 2 cents. I in no way feel entitled and I fully plan on plan on putting the same effort I have been known for at OKC and my new facility.
 

pltjess

Junior Member
Jul 9, 2009
121
0
16
Olathe, KS
All I am saying to you Jess is that your job is not guaranteed because your CTI. As a washout, I can tell you that I have the full backing of management and the confidence from many controllers that I am able to do the job. I have been in the FAA over 4.5 years. You don't stick around 4.5 years and still have a job if you "suck".

In fact, I challenge you to find me a washout from a 10 or higher facility that washed out at a 7 or lower after being given the opportunity. You may find a few, but I guarantee that the statistic for the number of high level washouts that do not make it after transferring to a lower level is far lower than any CTI or OTS statistic. Off the top of my head I can think of 20 people that I know that were offered a lower level tower after failure. The statistic is 100% pass. None have failed that I have met.

So while I understand your frustration in waiting for a job, please DO NOT take your frustration out on those that have worked hard and shown their potential.

Side note: *I am hesitant to post this because I do not want to come off sounding entitled myself, however after many posts in several threads degrading washouts I had to put in my 2 cents. I in no way feel entitled and I fully plan on plan on putting the same effort I have been known for at OKC and my new facility.
I apologize completely for the way I sounded. It wasn't my intention to degrade you or imply that washouts are stupid. The entire system sucks, plain and simple. All I had wanted to say was that there has to be a better way. Not saying anything will ever change..it is the FAA after all.

People on academy threads have said that people either have it, our they don't... Can't there be some way to figure this out before it's all said and done? And again, not saying washouts can't succeed elsewhere.
 

AprilATC

Newcomer
Jun 18, 2012
11
0
1
People on academy threads have said that people either have it, our they don't... Can't there be some way to figure this out before it's all said and done? And again, not saying washouts can't succeed elsewhere.
Just because you don't make it at a 12 doesn't mean you don't "have it". If it wasn't proven that "washouts" didn't usually have it, then they would flat out fire a washout. However, I think the past record has proven quite nicely that most of us do have it and we are pretty safe bets to check out if we were able to certify on some positions.

I personally was able to certify on all my D-sides and all my low altitude Radar sectors. Most of my trouble was high altitude.

To add to all these facts, my current facility has many people that washed out, went to a tower, came back, then checked out. "One and done" like you say is not as good as you may think.
 

lecoyle

I'm Banned For Unrespectable Reasons
Apr 17, 2010
307
0
16
Sacramento, CA
I think pltjess and other people on here headed to terminal facilities are frustrated because they don't have the oppertunity to go to a center, and either wash out or not. Either way enroute people get preference because at least they get a shot at a center facility, and then if they wash out they usually get a shot at a tower from what I understand. And these washouts get to go to the towers first. I get it.

It's really not fair either way... I'm headed to ZOA and terrified that I'll wash out simply because someone doesn't like me. I hear the horror stories on here but despite that I am VERY happy that I got selected for ZOA. At least I get the opportunity.

So lets get along... us ladies need to stick together and help each other out, we are still in the minority...
 

kickerboy17

Junior Member
Jan 5, 2009
105
0
16
CA
I too was denied a redirect from CA terminal to CA ARTCC.

Applied VRA in 2009
TOL: April 2010
Still Waiting.......
 

turnnburn

Rookie
May 14, 2012
35
0
6
I too was denied a redirect from CA terminal to CA ARTCC.

Applied VRA in 2009
TOL: April 2010
Still Waiting.......
I was denied a transfer up to a center 25 min from where I live as well. CA terminal October 10 selectee, TOL 1/2011. Maybe, just maybe it means they have fitted to go somewhere this year.................maybe.
 

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
0
16
OKC
Interesting to know, and yes, I can see hanging onto an investment. All I had meant with my initial past was, hey, this sucks. There's got to be some better way. Is it the training that sucks?
The wait DOES suck....I agree with that PART of your post.

I waited 6 months for ZOA while redirects from ZSE, ZAN and ZDV who had older TOL's were given class dates for ZOA. The wait sucks....save your criticism of the FAA process for once you are inside the gates.

The training department is great but training on the floor sucks. ZOA has D sides do everything but talk to the planes with just D side school behind them.... they also offer less OJT hours for certification compared to other facilities. They rarely give people more hours ( which terminal people get ALL THE TIME ) and you do not get a check ride unless your primary and secondary give you a thumbs up. Some CPC's train just for the money and could care less about you checking out. It is not pretty and that is why they loose so many people.
 

House

Junior Member
Nov 13, 2009
81
0
6
GEG
I have her as well. I emailed her earlier this week but she didn't respond which was unusual because she is pretty good about getting back to me.
Really? I've sent over a dozen emails, left phone messages, and called countless times. Only responded once or twice to an email. I eventually just gave up trying to contact her. Oh, and every time she was out of the office, I tried to contact her assistants, both of which also never responded.

Hmm... perhaps I have a really bad lazy eye that I don't know about...
 

purpletw

Trusted Member
Dec 14, 2010
360
1
18
LM always emails me back within an hour. I haven't bugged her much but when I do she answers pretty quickly.
 

AlphaLima

Trusted Member
Jun 20, 2008
405
1
18
A black hole
No kidding, also have LM and the only emails i have ever had returned are the TOL emails. Never returned voice mails either, have always had to chase her down on the phone until she answers.
 

MissLCoop

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2009
168
0
16
Just a heads up...LM just had a parent pass away and has been out of the office. I'd plan on her being backed up for a little bit :(.
 

House

Junior Member
Nov 13, 2009
81
0
6
GEG
That's terrible, I'm sorry to hear. Now I feel a bit better that I haven't called to bother her in the last several months. I hope she's doing alright with it.