Calling all Hired Controllers with 1-2+ years Exp. already

Marc539

Rookie
Jan 16, 2009
31
0
6
Miami, FL
Congratulations Captain Obvious!!! You've cracked the Mother F..ing code!!! At some point in life every ATCer gets taught how to properly use a head set, be it in College, the Military, or OTS in Basics!!!!


P.S. You must be F..ing Brilliant
:stupid: You really need to read before making a stupid post like this one.


So Cal - Great Post, thanks

Gnome- As far as the site goes, If i'm hired I'll try to make it a point to come back and share experiences and ask tons of questions to experienced controllers all while spreading the word about this great site. You guys are doing a Great Job.
 

SoCal_ATCer

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2009
247
6
18
So Cal
Helpful post, SoCal. Thanks.

On the rifts you mentioned at the end... go on that a little bit more, since a couple of people who were around for the "old" StuckMic have mentioned it rearing its head here. I know NATCA is the biggest union, is there really much to PATCO and anything else out there? Are there two unions just because they have different approaches, or is it something more?

And is there really much of a rub between OTS, CTI and VRA after a couple years? I know that vets will always have their own level of understanding going on -- as an ex-Army friend of mine describes it, he says it's like being around old frat brothers -- but once you've checked out and have become a "real" controller, to borrow a Roddyism, is it really that big of a deal anymore?

Regarding the rifts the only thing I am saying is that the divisions are there. They aren't necessarily that noticable in many instances. You only see the OTS vs CTI/VRA thing on the forums and some PATCO stuff I see in my tower but it is not destructive really. The problems with PATCO guys really has nothing to do with being in a different union (because they are not, they are either in NATCA or not in the union at all) but the fact that when they got rehired, they got their senority from the time they had prior to the strike. So they jumped in front of some people that had been controllers with NATCA for something like 10-15 years. I heard of people who were checked out at a major hub tower before the strike, got fired, got rehired back to that same facility 15 years later and got washed out simply because of the PATCO/NATCA situation. Lucky for us newly minted controllers and anyone in the process, the only thing we see out of that is the tension amongst some of the older controllers. It really doesn't effect us.

to be continued
 

SRQ

Senior Member
Jul 25, 2008
233
1
18
Sarasota/Indianapolis
Regarding the rifts the only thing I am saying is that the divisions are there. They aren't necessarily that noticable in many instances. You only see the OTS vs CTI/VRA thing on the forums and some PATCO stuff I see in my tower but it is not destructive really. The problems with PATCO guys really has nothing to do with being in a different union (because they are not, they are either in NATCA or not in the union at all) but the fact that when they got rehired, they got their senority from the time they had prior to the strike. So they jumped in front of some people that had been controllers with NATCA for something like 10-15 years. I heard of people who were checked out at a major hub tower before the strike, got fired, got rehired back to that same facility 15 years later and got washed out simply because of the PATCO/NATCA situation. Lucky for us newly minted controllers and anyone in the process, the only thing we see out of that is the tension amongst some of the older controllers. It really doesn't effect us.

to be continued
I've been a little concerned that there would be some problem with being PATCO member returning to work. I've talked to a several PATCO members here at the academy and many NATCA members that here as well. Most all are retired and instructing. I've got nothing to complain about. We get along well. I came here with the firm belief that I would not become a NATCA member.

Lately I've been reconsidering my position. NATCA seems to have a handle on the issues that controllers have in the FAA and NATCA is not affraid to step up and confront management. There is no doubt that the union is needed. PATCO is much the same with the contract towers. They are just as aggressive in pursuing the issues that confront the controllers in the contract towers. The controllers that I've spoken to in the contract towers are appreciative of PATCO's efforts versus the previous representation that they had been receiving, or not receiving. Both uions represent contract towers. I haven't had the opportunity to talk to any controllers from the NATCA towers. I have talked to several controllers that belong to NATCA at the enroute facilities in the field. There concerns are much the same as I remember when I was in the field, and they are satisfied with the efforts that NATCA is making for them.

I advocate joining NATCA for all the FAA controllers. It's the only way to deal with the FAA management dictated work rules. I also believe that PATCO would be a good choice for those controllers not employed directly with the FAA. It may be that I lean towards that union because I am a member, but they seem to be doing an excellent job representing the contract tower controllers.

I don't think senority is much of an issue. There just isn't very many returning PATCO controllers left. I've talked to a few NATCA contrllers about this very issue, and they told me that it just isn't an issue anymore.

Hope this helps.
 
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SoCal_ATCer

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2009
247
6
18
So Cal
Regarding the rifts the only thing I am saying is that the divisions are there. They aren't necessarily that noticable in many instances. You only see the OTS vs CTI/VRA thing on the forums and some PATCO stuff I see in my tower but it is not destructive really. The problems with PATCO guys really has nothing to do with being in a different union (because they are not, they are either in NATCA or not in the union at all) but the fact that when they got rehired, they got their senority from the time they had prior to the strike. So they jumped in front of some people that had been controllers with NATCA for something like 10-15 years. I heard of people who were checked out at a major hub tower before the strike, got fired, got rehired back to that same facility 15 years later and got washed out simply because of the PATCO/NATCA situation. Lucky for us newly minted controllers and anyone in the process, the only thing we see out of that is the tension amongst some of the older controllers. It really doesn't effect us.

to be continued

So sorry i got booted off of the computer at work right in the middle of the last post. and SRQ i will reply to your response as well.

As i said there only seems to be a rift with the OTS/VRA/CTI on the forums. Some of my best friends at my facility are VRAs and OTS(s?). Furthermore, I am sure any and all lines of distinction between the 3 would dissolve after a few years or even after getting checked out.

Regarding the PATCO/NATCA thing SRQ brought up, I am just reporting what I am seeing. I think SOCAL had a larger majority of PATCO guys hired back in the 90s than other areas so perhaps that is why it is more visible here. And most of the things I am discussing come from the PATCO guys I work with. They have told me stories about their experience, and experience of their buddies from back in the day, getting back into the agency. With that said, I still see a little tension amongst the most ranking NATCA members here who are now 4th and 5th (out of approx 20) on the seniority list after 3 PATCO guys came back. From 6th on down are people hired CTI/VRA/OTS within the last 3 or so years so there are no effects on us. As a matter of fact, I was trained by a PATCO rehire.

I hope this clears up any confusion. I think its a good mix of people to have. I happen to be CTI and also just happen to be a victim of circumstance of sorts. When I was in school the OTS thing was an option (kind of) but they were saying it was probably better to get recommended as a CTI. So me, along with several thousand others spent the time and money getting a degree in (amongst other things) ATC in order to do this. I will never regret having my degree but at the same time it seems (and I hate when people say this) unfair. I also understand though, that shit happens. I'll pay off my school debts for the next 20 years and live my life. I really don't have much to complain about. I'm doing what I love (but not the only thing I love), I'm certified, and I'm ready to continue in this field.

Also I actually only got onto stuckmic after I had been checked out for about a year. So this is all new to me as I have only been posting for a few weeks. I check daily so if there are any other questions about the job in general, anything in specific, or anything about SoCal PM me or just post.
 

BoomerSooner77

I am rubber, you're glue.
Oct 8, 2008
1,399
24
38
Plano, TX
Can I just say, I am going to be so far behind from day one at the Academy, I don't know jack shit about flying, airspace, airport diagrams... NADA!

This should be fun. :drive: <--- I use that smiley, cause I don't know how to drive a stick either... I know i know, laugh it up!
 

nsu7

Newcomer
Jul 10, 2008
18
0
1
Hey ME, how is ORD treating you?


Obviously the change in ownership came at a time when new applicants were scouring the web looking for information pertaining to our profession.

I have been visiting Stuckmic (current and past versions) for about 5 years now and can say that I see less and less actual ATC conversations going on here and more and more posts concerning employment.

While the old Stuckmic had it's limitations, it also had a fairly loyal following of veteran ATCer's. I don't see many of them here now (perhaps they are here and have just changed their screen names??) Sure there were a fair share of shouting matches (remember rontaylor's rants?) but all in all I think it was an "ATC discussion", not a "How to get a job discussion".

I still enjoy this site and hope, like Gnome does, that once the hiring craze slows, more and more "ATC" topics will arise.

That being said, on to the original topic... If anyone has questions about the training program at ORD, I would happy to reply.

DOD_ATC (but should be FAA_ATC now I guess)