Check this out! Hudson river crash

patco

PATCO President
Jun 15, 2008
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www.patco81.com
Air traffic controller suspended, was chatting on phone with girlfriend during Hudson River crash
By Kenneth R. Bazinet
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

Updated Thursday, August 13th 2009, 8:13 PM


The exact moment when a tourist helicopter collided with a small plane over the Hudson River Saturday was captured by a tourist on a boat. See shocking new video below.

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Tragically, there was no miracle this time on the Hudson after midair collision
WASHINGTON -- The air traffic controller at Teterboro Airport was on the phone with his girlfriend during Saturday's deadly air collision over the Hudson River, the Daily News has learned.

His supervisor was nowhere to be found at the time.

Both have been suspended and will likely be fired.

Investigations by the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration revealed the two air traffic controllers, who were not immediately identified, had seriously deviated from their assignments at the time of the collision.

Nine people were killed when a small Piper plane with three aboard and a Liberty Helicopters chopper carrying five Italian tourists collided and plummeted into the river.

Officials said that the controller's actions were "unacceptable" even though they were not apparently to blame for the crash.

The NTSB and FAA investigators discovered the improper procedures by listening to audio recordings from the tower at Teterboro in New Jersey.

"In conjunction with the FAA's participation with the NTSB's inquiry into the recent Hudson River accident, we learned that the controller handling the Piper flight was involved in apparently inappropriate conversations on the telephone at the time of the accident," FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said.

"We also learned that the supervisor was not present in the building as required.

"While we have no reason to believe at this time that these actions contributed to the accident, this kind of conduct is unacceptable and we have placed the employees on administrative leave and have begun disciplinary proceedings.

"We respect the NTSB's authority in determining the cause of the accident and will continue to work closely with NTSB investigators," Babbitt added.

The air traffic controller on duty was in radio contact with the doomed aircraft, but he was also on a separate line with his girlfriend, according to an angry senior administration official.

"He should not have been on the phone with his girlfriend while he was observing an airplane," the source said.

The preliminary probe also determined that the air traffic controller gave the pilot of the plane the correct radio frequency for Newark International Airport and handed him off to air traffic controllers at that tower, which is proper procedure, the source said. The pilot never contacted Newark Airport, however, the source said.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood was said to be furious over the missteps.
 

Raydon

Happy Camper
Aug 18, 2008
1,046
16
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-Personal Response-

DrudgeReport said:
The air traffic controller at Teterboro Airport was on the phone with his girlfriend during Saturday's deadly air collision over the Hudson River, the Daily News has learned.
Blame the controller

His supervisor was nowhere to be found at the time.
blame FAA Mgmt

Both have been suspended and will likely be fired.
Someones gotta pay when it makes national headlines

Investigations by the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration revealed the two air traffic controllers, who were not immediately identified, had seriously deviated from their assignments at the time of the collision.
Lets have a gander at the circumstances... no? no statement from either of the two involved? hmm

Nine people were killed when a small Piper plane with three aboard and a Liberty Helicopters chopper carrying five Italian tourists collided and plummeted into the river.
Absolute and most humble condolences to all involved - family, friends and the late.

Officials said that the controller's actions were "unacceptable" even though they were not apparently to blame for the crash.
Circumstantial.. once again.. without any way of knowing what was actually going on... and isn't it funny how no one can REALLY be blamed?" this article is both misleading and unsubstantiated thus far.. anyone can use their words to insinuate, which apparently is perfectly legal and justifiable as long as the reader feels as tho "justice has been served"

The NTSB and FAA investigators discovered the improper procedures by listening to audio recordings from the tower at Teterboro in New Jersey.
...what's the fucking point of bringing this up if "no one can really be blamed???... oh.. oh.. yeah.. because even though no one can be blamed, it's still REALLY fucking important to point the finger.. just so people abroad know where to look.... if any of you would allow me to re-quote something... wait.. let me find it.. oh yeah! it's two lines up!
Officials said that the controller's actions were "unacceptable" even though they were not apparently to blame for the crash.
I'm not saying this is all hollywooded up or anything.. but there's a lot more to this matter, I'd be willing to put money on, than what THIS particular article is trying to say.

--edit--

wait a minute.. yes.. yes I am saying it's hollywooded up. what we have here is probably some college grad working overtime on an unpaid internship trying to make a statement justifying his soon to be non-existent job position as Senior Latte Boy at drudge report.

This sophomoric banter is best left to non-professional venues as it neither contributes nor enlightens the general public or raises awareness of any pressing/important matters pertaining to working conditions, safety or procedure.

Thanks for wasting my time fudge report! Hey, maybe you could get a job writing for jerry springer.. i think your key demographic's a little lower on the pyramid.
 
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SNAX

Rookie
Aug 26, 2008
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Palmdale
This is the sort of trash-ass reporting one would expect from Yahoo!

Who is down to start a news website with REAL ACCURATE News! Hurumph Hurumph Hurumph!

This is definitely tragic. It was VFR right? See and AVOID. People get spoiled by good weather at times, and expect others to be looking out for them because the air is so clear.

It's the sort of thing that has happened, and is going to happen again. It's the FAA that keeps the skies as safe as they have been for all these years.

1 little incident, which is not their fault, and they are trying to be hung for it.
 

MikeATC

Retired FAA, NATCA Member
Apr 3, 2009
1,230
3
38
Nashville TN
Sorry guys, the TEB airport authority has already said that the controller was talking to one of their operations people about a dead cat on a taxiway that had just recently been removed, so it wasn't his girlfriend.
 

Raydon

Happy Camper
Aug 18, 2008
1,046
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Yaddya tryin to say here!?!? The spin doctors gave a wrong diagnosis!?!?

ZOMFG i never would have imagined.. what's next? The sky falling?
 

Raydon

Happy Camper
Aug 18, 2008
1,046
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NATCA STATEMENT ON FAA ANNOUNCEMENT

NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION (NATCA)
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 13, 2009

WASHINGTON – NATCA released the following statement in response to the Federal Aviation Administration’s announcement regarding investigations into the Aug. 8 Hudson River mid-air collision.

“We support that any such allegation is fully investigated before there is a rush to judgment about the behavior of any controller.”
-personal response-

I fully support this notion. I think there's a lot of dancing and shuffling going on right now. People gotta look busy when image is in question.

Lets just follow the facts as they change.

Lets watch the story unfold and morph and contort.

I love a good show.. we already know the outcome tho
 
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patco

PATCO President
Jun 15, 2008
109
0
16
Florida
www.patco81.com
************************************************************

NTSB ADVISORY

************************************************************

National Transportation Safety Board

Washington, DC 20594

August 14, 2009

************************************************************

NTSB ISSUES UPDATE ON ITS INVESTIGATION INTO THE MIDAIR

COLLISION OVER THE HUDSON RIVER

************************************************************

In its continuing investigation of the midair collision of

an air tour helicopter and a small plane over the Hudson

River on Saturday, the National Transportation Safety Board

has developed the following factual information:

On August 8, 2009, at 11:53 a.m. EDT, a Eurocopter AS 350 BA

(N401LH) operated by Liberty Helicopters and a Piper PA-32R-

300 (N71MC) operated by a private pilot, collided in midair

over the Hudson River near Hoboken, New Jersey. The

certificated commercial pilot and five passengers onboard

the helicopter were killed. The certificated private pilot

and two passengers onboard the airplane were also killed.

Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight

plans were filed for either flight. The local sightseeing

helicopter flight was conducted under the provisions of 14

Code of Federal Regulations Part 136. The personal airplane

flight was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of

Federal Regulations Part 91.

The helicopter departed West 30th Street Heliport (JRA), New

York, New York, for a sightseeing tour at 11:52 a.m. The

airplane departed Teterboro Airport (TEB), Teterboro, New

Jersey, at 11:49 a.m.; destined for Ocean City Municipal

Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey. The airplane pilot

requested an en route altitude of 3500 feet.

According to preliminary radar data, the helicopter turned

south from JRA and climbed to 1,100 feet, with a transponder

code of 1200. According to witnesses, the pilot of the

helicopter had transmitted a position report of "Stevens

Point" (Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New

Jersey) on the common traffic advisory frequency (CTAF),

123.05.

On the day of the accident, Teterboro Air Traffic Control

Tower staff consisted of five controllers. At the time of

the accident, the tower was staffed with two controllers:

one controller was working ground control, local control,

and arrival radar, and was also acting as the controller in

charge of the facility. The second controller was working

the flight data/clearance delivery position. Two other

controllers were on break and the front line manager had

left the facility at about 1145.

At 1148:30, the Teterboro tower controller cleared the

airplane for takeoff on frequency 119.50. The first radar

target for the airplane was recorded at 1149:55 as the

flight departed runway 19.

The tower controller advised the airplane and the pilot of

another helicopter operating in the area of each other and

instructed the pilot of the airplane to remain at or below

1,100 feet. At this time, the tower controller initiated a

non-business-related phone call to Teterboro Airport

Operations. The airplane flew southbound until the

controller instructed its pilot to turn left to join the

Hudson River. At 1152:20 the Teterboro controller instructed

the pilot to contact Newark on a frequency of 127.85; the

airplane reached the Hudson River just north of Hoboken

about 40 seconds later. At that time there were several

aircraft detected by radar in the area immediately ahead of

the airplane, including the accident helicopter, all of

which were potential traffic conflicts for the airplane. The

Teterboro tower controller, who was engaged in a phone call

at the time, did not advise the pilot of the potential

traffic conflicts. The Newark tower controller observed air

traffic over the Hudson River and called Teterboro to ask

that the controller instruct the pilot of the airplane to

turn toward the southwest to resolve the potential

conflicts. The Teterboro controller then attempted to

contact the airplane but the pilot did not respond. The

collision occurred shortly thereafter. A review of recorded

air traffic control communications showed that the pilot did

not call Newark before the accident occurred.

The helicopter departed from the 30th Street Heliport at

1152 for what was planned to be a 12-minute tour. The

initial part of the tour was to be flown outside class B

airspace, so the pilot was not required to contact air

traffic control before or after departure. The first radar

target for the helicopter was detected by Newark radar at

about 1152:27, when the helicopter was approximately mid-

river west of the heliport and climbing through 400 feet.

According to recorded radar data, the helicopter flew to the

west side of the river, and then turned southbound to follow

the Hudson. According to Liberty Helicopters management,

this was the expected path for the tour flight. The

helicopter continued climbing southbound until 1153:14, when

it and the airplane collided at 1,100 feet.

As noted above, immediately after the Teterboro tower

controller instructed the airplane to contact Newark tower

on frequency 127.85, the Newark controller called the

Teterboro controller to request that they turn the airplane

to a heading of 220 degrees (southwest) and transfer

communications on the aircraft. As the Newark controller

was providing the suggested heading to the Teterboro

controller, the pilot of the airplane was acknowledging the

frequency change to the Teterboro controller. The Teterboro

controller made two unsuccessful attempts to reach the

pilot, with the second attempt occurring at 1152:50. At

1152:54, 20 seconds prior to the collision, the radar data

processing system detected a conflict between the airplane

and the helicopter, which set off aural alarms and a caused

a "conflict alert" indication to appear on the radar

displays at both Teterboro and Newark towers. During

interviews both controllers stated that they did not recall

seeing or hearing the conflict alert. At 1153:19, five

seconds after the collision, the Teterboro controller

contacted the Newark controller to ask about the airplane,

and was told that the pilot had not called. There were no

further air traffic control contacts with either aircraft.

The role that air traffic control might have played in this

accident will be determined by the NTSB as the investigation

progresses. Any opinions rendered at this time are

speculative and premature.

Radar data and witness statements indicate that the aircraft

collided at 1,100 feet in the vicinity of Stevens Point.

Most of the wreckage fell in to the Hudson River; however,

some small debris from the airplane, including the right

main landing gear wheel, fell on land within the city limits

of Hoboken. The collision was witnessed by numerous people

in the area of the accident and was immediately reported to

local emergency responders.

The helicopter was recovered on August 9, 2009. Most of the

helicopter components were accounted for at the scene, with

the exception of the main rotor and transmission. The

airplane was recovered on August 11, 2009. Most of the

airplane components were accounted for at the scene, with

the exception of both wings. The wreckages were subsequently

transported to a secure facility in Delaware.

The pilot of the airplane, age 60, held a private pilot

certificate, with ratings for airplane single-engine land,

airplane multiengine land and instrument airplane. His most

recent FAA third-class medical certificate was issued on May

14, 2009. At that time he reported a total flight experience

of 1,020 hours.

The pilot of the helicopter, age 32, held a commercial pilot

certificate, with ratings for rotorcraft helicopter and

instrument helicopter. His most recent FAA second-class

medical certificate was issued on June 16, 2009. At that

time he reported a total flight experience of 3,010 hours.

Digital photographs and a video recording taken by witnesses

to the accident have been provided to the NTSB. In

addition, a digital camera was recovered from the

helicopter. All of these were sent to the NTSB Vehicle

Recorders Laboratory in Washington, DC for further

examination. Global Positioning System units were recovered

from both aircraft and also forwarded to the NTSB Vehicle

Recorders Laboratory.

The recorded weather at TEB at 1151 was wind variable at 3

knots, visibility 10 miles, sky clear, temperature 24

degrees Celsius, dew point 7 degrees Celsius, altimeter

30.23 inches of mercury.

###

NTSB Media Contact: Keith Holloway

(202) 314-6100

************************************************************
 

Raydon

Happy Camper
Aug 18, 2008
1,046
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-personal opinion.. this does not reflect the opinions of the website or any governing body OR union/organization including the website-


PATCO said:
Any opinions rendered at this time are

speculative and premature.
I am in full agreement.
 
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Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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This controller's being made into a scapegoat already. VFR isn't really that hard of a concept to understand... too bad it's lost on the media.
 

towerflower

Senior Member
Jun 15, 2008
150
4
18
Palm Coast, FL
The role that air traffic control might have played in this

accident will be determined by the NTSB as the investigation

progresses. Any opinions rendered at this time are

speculative and premature.


The above statement comes from the middle of the report and should have been at the top. There are more facts coming out every day and I urge people not to make snap judgements against anyone until all the facts are in.
 

Raydon

Happy Camper
Aug 18, 2008
1,046
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7:52 Pm Pacific 8/16/09

at this particular point in time it appears as tho Drudge Report as taken down their story about the Hudson mid-air incident.

DRUDGE REPORT 2009?

this link (by my last check at the time stated above) takes you back to an index-ish page listing other articles.

I can't wait to see what they put in its place.

My hope is that the writer will reconcile the inconsistencies and write an article that is current, unbiased and from a neutral perspective that spares the dignity of all involved in fair accordance with the Laws of Ethical Journalism. (capitalized for a reason.. if anyone understands poignant hints such as these any more)
 
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towerflower

Senior Member
Jun 15, 2008
150
4
18
Palm Coast, FL
There is a problem with the NTSB report that NATCA already released a press statement on. One minute they say that the target was displayed and traffic could've been called but wait.....look further in the report. At 1152:20 the a/c was switched to EWR and at the time several targets were in the area including the helicopter BUT if you look further into the report it states that the helicopted did not show up on radar until 1152:27...a full seven seconds after the switch. The NTSB has admitted that the time line is correct and that the helicopter was not on radar at the time of the switch and they were incorrect for saying that it was but they have no plans on correcting the information with the media.

4 little words (including the accident helicopter) can change an entire image about what happened. Don't be so quick in passing judgement on this controller. The story is changing as more facts come out, so don't believe everything that hits the airwaves in the days following such a tradegy. Wait until the FINAL REPORT comes out.
 

towerflower

Senior Member
Jun 15, 2008
150
4
18
Palm Coast, FL
Here is the latest to hit the airwaves:

Controllers: NTSB report on Hudson collision wrong
By JOAN LOWY (AP) ? 3 hours ago

WASHINGTON ? Union leaders said Monday that federal safety officials made a mistake in a report that implied an air traffic controller could have prevented a mid-air collision over the Hudson River and demanded a retraction.

National Air Traffic Controllers Association officials said in a statement that the National Transportation Safety Board was wrong when it said that a controller at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey who was handling a small plane involved in the Aug. 8 accident failed to warn the single-engine Piper's pilot that there were other aircraft in his path, including the air tour helicopter. Minutes later the plane and helicopter collided, sending both aircraft plunging into the Hudson. Nine people died in the accident.

Union officials said the NTSB's report later notes that the helicopter, which was just beginning to lift off, didn't appear on the Teterboro controller's radar screen until seven seconds after the controller handed off responsibility for the plane to nearby Newark Liberty International Airport and told the pilot to contact Newark.

The report infers that the helicopter was among the aircraft visible on radar in the plane's path, which was not the case, the union said.

Union officials tried unsuccessfully over the weekend to persuade the safety board to change its report.

"We don't have any comment at this time," NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson said in response to the union.

The Teterboro controller made a personal phone call shortly after clearing the plane for takeoff at 11:48 a.m. EDT and remained on the phone until the collision five minutes later, even while he was directing traffic, according to the report and a Federal Aviation Administration statement.

The Piper pilot never contacted Newark, but just before the collision he acknowledged the Teterboro controller's instruction to change radio frequencies. The sequence of events raises the possibility the pilot's attention may have been focused on the radio so that he didn't see the helicopter.

After the helicopter appeared on radar screens, a Newark controller called the Teterboro controller to alert him to the possible collision, the NTSB report said. The Teterboro controller twice tried unsuccessfully to contact the pilot before the crash.

"The aircraft never made radio contact with Newark, as Teterboro had requested. Nobody was talking to him. You cannot issue traffic warnings to a pilot who is not communicating with you," said Ray Adams, NATCA facility representative at Newark, who is representing the Teterboro controller in the NTSB crash investigation.

The FAA said last week that it doesn't appear the controller could have prevented the accident.

The NTSB took apparent exception to that, stating in its report that it would decide what role the controller played in the accident and that other opinions at this time are speculative and premature.

The public spat between the board and the union and FAA is unusual. Typically, the union and FAA steer clear of any public statement regarding an ongoing investigation so as not to jeopardize their status as parties to the investigation. As parties to the investigation, they have access to information uncovered by the NTSB long before it becomes public.

(This version CORRECTS ADDS three grafs of context of public spat between safety and union, FAA; SUBS 2nd graf to correct 'National Air Traffic Controllers Association' sted 'National Air Traffic Controllers Union.'.)

Copyright ? 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
:diggin:
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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Say what you will about NATCA, they're doing the right thing by standing up for their own here as he's being scapegoated by the press and the NTSB. Let's hope the press picks up on this one as quickly as they have everything else related to the crash.
 

towerflower

Senior Member
Jun 15, 2008
150
4
18
Palm Coast, FL
And another retraction is hitting the airwaves:

Correction: Mid-Air Collision story

Associated Press
08/16/09 3:00 PM EDT WASHINGTON ? In an Aug. 14 story about the actions of air traffic controllers at the time of a midair collision over the Hudson River, The Associated Press erroneously reported a response by the airplane pilot. The pilot acknowledged an instruction to change radio frequency, not an instruction to turn his plane southwest.
:diggin:
 

Raydon

Happy Camper
Aug 18, 2008
1,046
16
38
OKC
Union leaders said Monday that federal safety officials made a mistake in a report that implied an air traffic controller could have prevented a mid-air collision over the Hudson River and demanded a retraction.
Yay :innocent:
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
1,149
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Aaaand now word is NATCA has been removed from the investigation by the NTSB for violating its rules.