CTI w/TOLs have to wait for OTS first?

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Muneco

Senior Analyst
Jan 13, 2009
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Wow so I just found out that OKC is trying to fill in classes with OTS applicants first before issuing CTI students a class date. WTF! I was told by my HR rep that they were to have applicants who are OTS be given priority for the basics class. This means that if they select 12 kids for basics per class, those 12 will have to attend initial training in the following month, therefore not giving any room for CTI students to attend initial training (Enroute). Because of this I may or may not see a Feb class date. Now here is the part that is f'ing me up. Because I am CTI, I may be passed up and my date could be given to someone with a younger TOL, who is OTS, which to me is total bull sh!t. I asked why and was told that congress wanted to create a public hiring and that those people need to be in class. WTF?

When I went to CTI school, there was no f'ing pubnat. I did things the right way, the long way, just to find out that someone who probably applied on a limb and worked n McDonalds for 4 years is going to be selected before me even though I have an older TOL?

Blow me.
 
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Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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Dude, I missed DanielEtvs. Say it how it is.

Muneco, chill out my brother. You know not to get all worked up because you hear something from HR that you don't have in writing. They probably worded it wrong, gave you incomplete information, or were just plain confused. OTS has gotta go through Basics; they're probably holding off finalizing any Initial courses until they know who they're pushing through the Basics ones first. After all, if they overbooked the Initials with CTI/VRA/etc and then ended up with more people in Basics than they allocated space for in Initials, they'd be up a creek.

I did things the right way, the long way, just to find out that someone who probably applied on a limb and worked n McDonalds for 4 years is going to be selected before me even though I have an older TOL?
Yep, that's us, the McDonald's employees who united to push our way into the ATC workforce.

Also... applied on a whim. Not limb.

Nah.
 

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
0
16
OKC
Wow so I just found out that OKC is trying to fill in classes with OTS applicants first before issuing CTI students a class date. WTF! I was told by my HR rep that they were to have applicants who are OTS be given priority for the basics class. This means that if they select 50 kids for basics per class, those 50 will have to attend initial training in the following month, therefore not giving any room for CTI students to attend initial training (Enroute). Because of this I may or may not see a Feb class date. Now here is the part that is f'ing me up. Because I am CTI, I may be passed up and my date could be given to someone with a younger TOL, who is OTS, which to me is total bull sh!t. I asked why and was told that congress wanted to create a public hiring and that those people need to be in class. WTF?

When I went to CTI school, there was no f'ing pubnat. I did things the right way, the long way, just to find out that someone who probably applied on a limb and worked n McDonalds for 4 years is going to be selected before me even though I have an older TOL?

Blow me.
Not everyone worked at McDonalds. There are other careers that prepare people for ATC. We all know that there are no more pubnats. I assume they are just trying to clean out the rest of us and eliminate the basics class instead of paying to train 10 people at a time in basics. Lots has been done in one way or another that is not cool. I have waited as patiently as I am capable (not very much) for a ZOA a class date to have a woman who got her TOL the same time as me start in January but now HR has solicited (not accepted.... sought out) people from other facilities with TOL's just before me and will send them to OKC before me. So I picked a less desirable facility to increase my chances of getting in the FAA to only get people who where never willing to be take that location scheduled in front of me.

Sorry dude.
 

Muneco

Senior Analyst
Jan 13, 2009
1,178
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Dude, I missed DanielEtvs. Say it how it is.

Muneco, chill out my brother. You know not to get all worked up because you hear something from HR that you don't have in writing. They probably worded it wrong, gave you incomplete information, or were just plain confused. OTS has gotta go through Basics; they're probably holding off finalizing any Initial courses until they know who they're pushing through the Basics ones first. After all, if they overbooked the Initials with CTI/VRA/etc and then ended up with more people in Basics than they allocated space for in Initials, they'd be up a creek.



Yep, that's us, the McDonald's employees who united to push our way into the ATC workforce.

Also... applied on a whim. Not limb.



Nah.
Well if she worded it wrong Im going to be passed up for no apparent reason. They are filling up seats with OTS first, this is what she told me. Im going nuts because of the fact that I started this process since 2006. I asked her about filling Basics classes first and she said that I am sh*t outta luck until Feb. I am at the top of my list for my facility, which means I am next in line for OKC, but to be passed up for someone who waited less than me is ridiculous. Like I said earlier, I went to CTI school because I did not want to go the military route. There were no PUBNATS, you guys understand that? I had to go the CTI route. I wanted to be an Air Traffic Controller. So this was how to do it. So to hear them say that I might be passed up for someone who did not attend CTI because this was not something they really had in mind to do does piss me off. No offense to you Rossta. I know you love aviation. But were you willing to go to the airforce or go through CTI to become a controller? You didn't back then am I not correct? You took the opportunity to apply under a a public hire and got selected, but would it be fair that you get a seat before me if I have an older TOL than you and we were going to the same facility? I dont.


And I did mean out on a limb which means to put yourself in a dangerous situation, do something risky, or take a chance. I typed it wrong.

About English Idioms Blog Archive Out on a Limb - What they mean, how we use them, where they came from

When I use Mcdonalds as a reference, Im talking about the FAA's qualifications for an OTS applicant, which is 4 years of work, 4 years of school or BOTH (2 years work 2 years school). You work at Mcdonalds for 4 years? If so than go apply on ASAP. That is all you need for this job thanks to congress.
 
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Muneco

Senior Analyst
Jan 13, 2009
1,178
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Not everyone worked at McDonalds. There are other careers that prepare people for ATC. We all know that there are no more pubnats. I assume they are just trying to clean out the rest of us and eliminate the basics class instead of paying to train 10 people at a time in basics. Lots has been done in one way or another that is not cool. I have waited as patiently as I am capable (not very much) for a ZOA a class date to have a woman who got her TOL the same time as me start in January but now HR has solicited (not accepted.... sought out) people from other facilities with TOL's just before me and will send them to OKC before me. So I picked a less desirable facility to increase my chances of getting in the FAA to only get people who where never willing to be take that location scheduled in front of me.

Sorry dude.
Hey man no probs Im just ranting and raving, but what career prepares you for ATC? If you were to ask any controller, he/she would say different. Some even compare themselves to a heart surgeon LOL.

About waiting, ya it sucks, Ive started my road to ATC in Jan of 2006. I know what its like to wait believe me. About your situation, anyone with a TOL before you should be given an OKC date before you, even if it means taking your seat.

My situation is the opposite.
 

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
0
16
OKC
Hey man no probs Im just ranting and raving, but what career prepares you for ATC? If you were to ask any controller, he/she would say different. Some even compare themselves to a heart surgeon LOL.

About waiting, ya it sucks, Ive started my road to ATC in Jan of 2006. I know what its like to wait believe me. About your situation, anyone with a TOL before you should be given an OKC date before you, even if it means taking your seat.

My situation is the opposite.
High pressure safety related.

Ever take a test to work for 9-11? Insane I tell you.
Ever listen to a train dispatcher on a line with a bunch of crews who will expire? (trains stop in place when they reach 12 hours)
Control Center in a large transit agency?

I'm a dispatcher responsible on my own for about 200 transit departures a day. 150 of them buses that run solely on electric overhead wire that someones grandpa designed.

One of my uncles coworkers and a friend of sorts works in our control center... he was terminated from the FAA for lets say a DUI of sorts. (small world) He worked at BIL and HLN then S46. He'll tell you any day that he gets his ass handed to him at Metro way more often than the FAA. He was OTS... not CTI after the strike man.

I think CTI is great.... but CTI often passes people who do no have the job skills or responsibilty to make it at the FAA. I think the Pubnats were kind of a joke but maybe more refined they should hire a train dispatcher with 5 years of stable job history. Someone who passes CTI may still show up late every day and call in sick every Saturday.

Thats all
 

Muneco

Senior Analyst
Jan 13, 2009
1,178
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I think CTI is great.... but CTI often passes people who do no have the job skills or responsibilty to make it at the FAA. I think the Pubnats were kind of a joke but maybe more refined they should hire a train dispatcher with 5 years of stable job history. Someone who passes CTI may still show up late every day and call in sick every Saturday.

Thats all
What do you think the odds that an OTS might not have the job skills? Again both do not have any experience as a controller, but I know the odds of a CTI wanting it more than an OTS are far greater than what you think. Odds meaning numbers, not personal experiences.

But I understand how you feel.
 

mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
0
16
OKC
Well if she worded it wrong Im going to be passed up for no apparent reason. They are filling up seats with OTS first, this is what she told me. Im going nuts because of the fact that I started this process since 2006. I asked her about filling Basics classes first and she said that I am sh*t outta luck until Feb. I am at the top of my list for my facility, which means I am next in line for OKC, but to be passed up for someone who waited less than me is ridiculous. Like I said earlier, I went to CTI school because I did not want to go the military route. There were no PUBNATS, you guys understand that? I had to go the CTI route. I wanted to be an Air Traffic Controller. So this was how to do it. So to hear them say that I might be passed up for someone who did not attend CTI because this was not something they really had in mind to do does piss me off. No offense to you Rossta. I know you love aviation. But were you willing to go to the airforce or go through CTI to become a controller? You didn't back then am I not correct? You took the opportunity to apply under a a public hire and got selected, but would it be fair that you get a seat before me if I have an older TOL than you and we were going to the same facility? I dont.


And I did mean out on a limb which means to put yourself in a dangerous situation, do something risky, or take a chance. Maybe "whim" is only used in Washington.

About English Idioms Blog Archive Out on a Limb - What they mean, how we use them, where they came from

When I use Mcdonalds as a reference, Im talking about the FAA's qualifications for an OTS applicant, which is 4 years of work, 4 years of school or BOTH (2 years work 2 years school). You work at Mcdonalds for 4 years? If so than go apply on ASAP. That is all you need for this job thanks to congress.
Muneco.... you got your TOL in June 09 at the Chicago PEPC right? So you have been waiting with a offer for just over a year. You were working on being able to apply before that. I was in a CTI program back in 06 I think (when Bush cut the pay) and I hardly felt like I was in the "process" of getting hired.

btw.... I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I also understand your anger.
 

Muneco

Senior Analyst
Jan 13, 2009
1,178
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Muneco.... you got your TOL in June 09 at the Chicago PEPC right? So you have been waiting with a offer for just over a year. You were working on being able to apply before that. I was in a CTI program back in 06 I think (when Bush cut the pay) and I hardly felt like I was in the "process" of getting hired.

btw.... I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I also understand your anger.
Yes I quit my career of 8 years (to attend school) and started my route or process to this new career in 2006. It is a process for me because my life has been on hold since. I knew this is what I wanted, I knew I would ace the ATSAT and I knew I would be at this point of my life waiting on a class date. Maybe that is why I feel the way I do. Being pushed to the side because I am CTI is why I am pissed off and telling everyone here what the situation is for CTI people.

Thank you for understanding. Are you in OKC?

For those late comers, I am angry that I am being passed up because I am CTI and my seat is being given to OTS with younger TOLs. According to Careers this should not happen, but my HR rep who probably is mistaken told me so. I am next in queue but will most likely be mistakenly passed up.

Does anyone know who the HR director is? Maybe a PM with the name? Thanks!
 
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mjh55404

Senior Analyst
Jul 3, 2009
996
0
16
OKC
Yes I quit my career of 8 years (to attend school) and started my route or process to this new career in 2006. It is a process for me because my life has been on hold since. I knew this is what I wanted, I knew I would ace the ATSAT and I knew I would be at this point of my life waiting on a class date. Maybe that is why I feel the way I do. Being pushed to the side because I am CTI is why I am pissed off and telling everyone here what the situation is for CTI people.

Thank you for understanding. Are you in OKC?

For those late comers, I am angry that I am being passed up because I am CTI and my seat is being given to OTS with younger TOLs.

Im going to sleep good night.
I am in Seattle. I am still waiting for a class date for ZOA. I hope that will happen soon. Drop the F off FAA and think AA. You know the prayer:

"God, grant us the...
Serenity to accept things we cannot change,
Courage to change the things we can, and the
Wisdom to know the difference
Patience for the things that take time
Appreciation for all that we have, and
Tolerance for those with different struggles
Freedom to live beyond the limitations of our past ways, the
Ability to feel your love for us and our love for each other and the
Strength to get up and try again even when we feel it is hopeless"

I have worked for a state, a school district and a county and so far this is the only healthy way I can deal with the FAA. Sometimes it is just crazy.

You can go to meetings if the prayer alone does not work.
 

mtlatc

Epic Member
Oct 17, 2008
1,262
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In a bus down by the river!
I quit reading after a few post....If they want to hire OTS over you so what? You went to school for a job that you might, or might not get..there is no guarantee of a job just because you went to school for it...You should vote for hope and change....
 

Muneco

Senior Analyst
Jan 13, 2009
1,178
5
38
You should read those post. Im getting passed over by people who received TOLs after me. This is my gripe. I don't care if they are ots or f'ing gladiators from Rome, first come first serve. I went to school because that was the only way to get in without a trip to iraq.

Oh and I never mentioned anything about a guarantee.
 
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TimShady

Senior Analyst
Mar 12, 2009
886
5
18
31
Chicago
I'd keep digging, you'll probably find this to be bad information. Worst case scenario it'll be true and you'll have to wait a little longer unfairly. At least you'll have the career you've been waiting so long for eventually.
 

opie

stepchild
Nov 23, 2008
471
1
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www.facebook.com
You should read those post. Im getting passed over by people who received TOLs after me. This is my gripe. I don't care if they are ots or f'ing gladiators from Rome, first come first serve. I went to school because that was the only way to get in without a trip to iraq.

Oh and I never mentioned anything about a guarantee.
I understand the anger, it sucks. but calm down plz... :)
 

arg3b

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2009
262
2
18
Memphis, TN
I quit reading after a few post....If they want to hire OTS over you so what? You went to school for a job that you might, or might not get..there is no guarantee of a job just because you went to school for it...You should vote for hope and change....
Yeah, and there should be absolutely no job for any OTS applicant. OTS shouldnt even exist. Thank god there wont be any PUBNATS until the VRA and CTI pool run dry.
 

opie

stepchild
Nov 23, 2008
471
1
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www.facebook.com
Yeah, and there should be absolutely no job for any OTS applicant. OTS shouldnt even exist. Thank god there wont be any PUBNATS until the VRA and CTI pool run dry.
nevermind that a lot of the guys we are replacing were OTS.. but sure.. we are useless. :-/ could never do the job as good as you. never mind the 2 CTIs I have met personally were dumb as hell with AT-SAT scores of 76 and 88. And most OTS were able to finish a "real" 4 year college program and even masters programs.

(real is in quotes denoting a non-community college type atmosphere, which in my experience community colleges are vastly easier due to the more one on one with the teacher and less strict grading.)

(I will never understand how anyone can do poorly on the ATSAT... really.)
 
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