Daily training times.

mikefsfr

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May 31, 2010
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Gotten kind of ugly at my place of employment. For all developmental's, and CPC-IT'S, how much training do you get on a daily basis? Do they ever call in overtime for training? Does one person calling in for sick-leave cancel training for the entire facility for the day? Trying to get my ducks in a row, any feedback is appreciated.
 

killswitch

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Sep 12, 2008
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I'm no longer a dev, but when I was we had about 7 at one time. They'd call in overtime for it. There have been times lately with the last two dev's here that we've not been able to train because the lack of staffing even with an overtime person here. The last two were doing as little as 2 hours per week sometimes.

I'm assuming that you mean your almost up on hours? There are certain requirements on the FAA's side as far as training. I know that you have to spend a certain amount of your time (50% I believe) with your actual training team. Yadda yadda. FacRep any help?
 

mikefsfr

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May 31, 2010
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Not even close to being up on hours. Just haven't been scheduled training time in over two weeks. Not complaining, but working through all my breaks to get time isn't what it should be. Just curious how it is at other facilities.
 

killswitch

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Sep 12, 2008
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We had a girl from another facility come visit a few weeks ago. She had her training on hold to due to staffing. Been a dev at a level 7 for 2 years or so with no radar training after she got her tower qualification. Seems to be normal.

I don't think you'd be wrong for complaining. (I know, perception is truth. Truth is people don't like "complainers.") It's your career and you are being held back. If there isn't enough staffing then it makes sense. But they can bring people in on overtime for training.
 

mikefsfr

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May 31, 2010
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Appreciate the help. There are even deeper issues that I don't care to explain on a public forum, just getting tired of takin it in the ass by management and the union I pay for doing jack shit.
 

mbalunda

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Jan 31, 2009
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I only trained for 24 hours in the month of june. We're going into shifts where the numbers are set at 12 and we'll have only 7 or 8 there including the OTs they've already called in.
 

atcguruaf

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Jan 4, 2009
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It probably depends on your particular facility and/or type of facility. I have yet to work at a place where they call in overtime for training. Just doesn't make sense. If someone calls in sick, a developmental can easily be moved from the training side over to the staffing side.

As far as working through your breaks - you do what you gotta do. I used to do it all the time, even when staffing was adequate. The reason? No one wants to see a trainee sitting on their ass when they could be monitoring or learning something. I'm not saying breaks are not required, but take shorter breaks or even work through 1 or 2 of them.

Showing that you're willing to bust your ass to get qualified will typically garner you more effort from the very folks you complain about - management and union. Even if you train for just 15 minutes at a time, or whatever, show that you're willing to work.

And please don't use what I or anyone else says as a defense. If, for example, you state "well, at XXX, they call in overtime to train, blah blah blah", it probably won't go over well. I recommend biting the bullet, quit whining about working through breaks, and just show them that you're gonna work hard, regardless of staffing.

It goes a long way, and hardly unnoticed. If that doesn't work, then I'd say you have an argument, primarily because you've exhausted all you can from your end. Just a matter of what the other side is willing to do now. Good luck.
 

mikefsfr

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May 31, 2010
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It probably depends on your particular facility and/or type of facility. I have yet to work at a place where they call in overtime for training. Just doesn't make sense. If someone calls in sick, a developmental can easily be moved from the training side over to the staffing side.

As far as working through your breaks - you do what you gotta do. I used to do it all the time, even when staffing was adequate. The reason? No one wants to see a trainee sitting on their ass when they could be monitoring or learning something. I'm not saying breaks are not required, but take shorter breaks or even work through 1 or 2 of them.

Showing that you're willing to bust your ass to get qualified will typically garner you more effort from the very folks you complain about - management and union. Even if you train for just 15 minutes at a time, or whatever, show that you're willing to work.

And please don't use what I or anyone else says as a defense. If, for example, you state "well, at XXX, they call in overtime to train, blah blah blah", it probably won't go over well. I recommend biting the bullet, quit whining about working through breaks, and just show them that you're gonna work hard, regardless of staffing.

It goes a long way, and hardly unnoticed. If that doesn't work, then I'd say you have an argument, primarily because you've exhausted all you can from your end. Just a matter of what the other side is willing to do now. Good luck.

If anyone of stuck mic would turn my post into a complaint it was deff you, and I expect nothin less coming from your post history. Not one thing I said was a complaint or even meant to be, even remotely. I simply said you shouldnt have to work through your breaks, not tht I don't WANT to.
 

atcguruaf

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Jan 4, 2009
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Not even close to being up on hours. Just haven't been scheduled training time in over two weeks. Not complaining, but working through all my breaks to get time isn't what it should be. Just curious how it is at other facilities.
I took that as complaining. But if you were not complaining, my bad. I don't know what else to call it. Typically people say thing like "with all due respect..." then follow up with something disrespectful, or "not trying to argue, but..." and then begin an argument. Your comment of "Not complaining, but..." led me to believe it was a complaint.

And you're absolutely right. I wouldn't expect anything less or different either, regardless of my post history. I just have a particular view on how things should work and that's all. It's nothing personal. If you read the post in its entirety, I said that if you work through your breaks (which you say you have), then you have an argument to bring to the table. That was the jist of it - bust your ass so you can go to them (union, management, training team, etc.) and say, "look, I've been working really hard, but I don't know that I am getting enough training. Is there anything that can be done? Schedule changes? anything?"

It appeared that you wanted something to go to management/union/training team with. But without anything to support your side, it would be an almost futile argument.

And don't make it seem like I haven't been through training. I have. I know what it's like. I know the frustrations. I know that I used the very advice that I've given you and received positive results. It's hard, I know, but worth it in the long run.

I recommend biting the bullet, quit whining about working through breaks, and just show them that you're gonna work hard, regardless of staffing.

I know this is the comment that got to you, and I stand by it. If you are not in fact "whining" or complaining - again, my bad. Your post lead me to believe so. Take it with a grain of salt. I'm not saying your complaint is not even valid. I just wanted to make sure that you're doing everything in your power before bringing it up to a training team, supervisor, or FacRep. Again, good luck.
 

Radium

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Jan 14, 2009
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It helps if your trainer will go to bat for you. I know one of our trainers said something along the lines of "xx does not want 'pro time' (our name for dev being used to cover short staffing), if u put him on the cpc side, I'm gonna call in sick... So ur gonna have to call in ot anyway."
 

mikefsfr

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May 31, 2010
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It helps if your trainer will go to bat for you. I know one of our trainers said something along the lines of "xx does not want 'pro time' (our name for dev being used to cover short staffing), if u put him on the cpc side, I'm gonna call in sick... So ur gonna have to call in ot anyway."

Our union isn't that strong, not even close. Pretty much in bed with management for that matter. But the kind of shit you just mentioned is why i pay my dues, just wish it was more local as well.
 

Radium

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Jan 14, 2009
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I remember back in like 08-10, ZID was doing eram... So they stopped training all together. Ur on ag pay? Tough, we will train you in 2years
 

SnoopDog

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2012
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Don't give up on your union. I know from personal experience that there are people outside your facility willing to help. There are people that love this stuff. contact your vp.
 

mikefsfr

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May 31, 2010
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Could not locate the national training order, only the local. Couldn't get through to local training order without laughing. References for the national training order?
 

Radium

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Jan 14, 2009
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Lol, if u have non weekend days off that rapes ur training.
Tho, we did follow that rule in the military
 

mikefsfr

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May 31, 2010
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Lol, if u have non weekend days off that rapes ur training.
Tho, we did follow that rule in the military
Ya w rotating permanent days off and the old “ hey their chief, we dont train on weekends go work data ", I just know my progression is being hindered.