Dallas TRACON - D10

emb145

Junior Member
Nov 23, 2008
77
0
6
Anyone know if the selection list is out yet for the last bid or when the actual selections will be made?
 

Scott Montroy

Newcomer
May 15, 2014
22
3
3
Dallas
I am the current FacRep for Dallas/Fort Worth Tracon - D10. We are currently critically staffed and waiting for a final bid list to arrive to start selections. We will likely be critically staffed for at least 4-5 more years based on time to certification and other factors. Please contact me, if you have any questions.
 

FM_Weasel

Senior Analyst
Dec 9, 2008
991
7
18
What's training like there? How long are people taking? What sort of transfers are seeing the most success or is it just highly variable like other places?

How do you like working there? Good relationship with coworkers and management?

Thanks for taking the time to post.
 

Scott Montroy

Newcomer
May 15, 2014
22
3
3
Dallas
Average training time for a CPC-IT from a level 9 or higher is 18 months. As in most cases, success rates vary, but people from higher levels with radar experience tend to do the best. Washout rate from non-radar towers is close to 75%. We are at a point now with staffing that we are unlikely to pick up anyone below a level 9. Not impossible, just unlikely, simply because we need people that have the best chance of certifying the quickest.

I worked at ZFW for almost 15 years and have been at D10 for 8.5. If I could take our critical staffing out of the mix, I would say it is great. The staffing issue is wearing on us all. 6 day weeks for everyone on the OT list and some 6 day weeks for non-OT people. Overall relationships are very good. But, as with all large facilities, there are occasional hiccups. Our current acting ATM and I have known each other almost our entire careers and we work very well together.

Hope that helps.
 

RobertB

Senior Analyst
Aug 18, 2008
868
6
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Scott, what's the issue with getting people notified that they have been selected for D10? Is it a union issue, management issue, or a HR issue? The reason I ask is that I visited the facility back in the summer of 2012 for a bid that was posted in February of 2012, I believe. I was told that I was selected by the facility by the ATM, female at that time could still be there, however, it was almost four months (basically nine months from the close of the bid) from me visiting to when I received a phone call at 9:45 EST from a HR lady asking if I was still interested in going to D10. By then, I figured I wasn't picked up by the facility and had already been selected and finalized a transfer to another level 12 where I've been for certified for almost a year. It just seems like a ridiculously long time to notify people of their selection if the facility is in that much of a need for controllers. Thanks for responding.
 

RobertB

Senior Analyst
Aug 18, 2008
868
6
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A few other questions...
1) Being a critically staffed facility, are you guys close to receiving or already receive CIP?
2) I've heard that you're assigned the west side or the east side based on what's needed and your prior controlling experience, but does each side bid jointly for days off or independent of each other? Basically, what I'm asking is that if I'm assigned say the east side (where I'd assume more experienced controllers work) and I bid separately than people on the west side, does that mean that someone with significantly less seniority and experience could have better days than me since I work a different "area?"
 

Jax

Senior Analyst
Nov 17, 2010
869
32
28
N90-EWR
A few other questions...
2) I've heard that you're assigned the west side or the east side based on what's needed and your prior controlling experience, but does each side bid jointly for days off or independent of each other? Basically, what I'm asking is that if I'm assigned say the east side (where I'd assume more experienced controllers work) and I bid separately than people on the west side, does that mean that someone with significantly less seniority and experience could have better days than me since I work a different "area?"
I don't know how they do it over there, but its very possible to have what you described going on there. Here at N90 you compete for days off only with the people in your area. More than 3/4ths of the entire controller workforce here at N90 has lower seniority than me, but because they're in other areas, some have better days off than me.
 

RobertB

Senior Analyst
Aug 18, 2008
868
6
18
I don't know how they do it over there, but its very possible to have what you described going on there. Here at N90 you compete for days off only with the people in your area. More than 3/4ths of the entire controller workforce here at N90 has lower seniority than me, but because they're in other areas, some have better days off than me.
I get that at N90 because no one works a common airport, but my understanding is that everyone works DFW which would make the two sides basically equal in bidding off days or at the least annual leave.
 

airkiwi

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2008
91
8
8
I'm confused by this - there seem to be no shortage of people on NATCA's swap board who want to get to D10. Have you been able to pull ERR lists? I know of someone who didn't put in for D10 because the perception was that it would take too long to get picked up.
 

Jax

Senior Analyst
Nov 17, 2010
869
32
28
N90-EWR
I'm confused by this - there seem to be no shortage of people on NATCA's swap board who want to get to D10. Have you been able to pull ERR lists? I know of someone who didn't put in for D10 because the perception was that it would take too long to get picked up.
Maybe they don't want to pick up some of those on the swap board. I'm not saying that's the case with them, but there were some that were bidding to come here (N90) that we didn't want to pick up, because we knew it would be a waste of time. Mostly former washouts that were trying to return for a second try, or some that were like age 53+, and wanted to come for their high 3 with 0, or little radar experience.
 

The Heatles

Loving Life
Jun 15, 2008
2,172
24
38
Miami, FL
I'm confused by this - there seem to be no shortage of people on NATCA's swap board who want to get to D10. Have you been able to pull ERR lists? I know of someone who didn't put in for D10 because the perception was that it would take too long to get picked up.
D10 posts bids quite often it seems. when facilities post public "bids" it means they're hurting for manning and they tend to be less "choosy". Also like Jax said... facilities will weed out applicants who they feel will not certify in a reasonable time, or have a motive that will result in them taking their time to certify. They can do that to an extent, but there are still guidelines and agreements that must be followed when selecting.


How many radar positions are usually running?
I don't want to make this thread about a facility other than D10 so PM me if you have other questions or post it in the MIA thread and I'll gladly answer it, but normally there are 3 departure positions, 3 arrivals, 3 feeders and a satellite (sometimes 2 satellites)

MIA basically has 2 departures/arrivals/feeders and FLL has 1 departure/arrival/feeder. When FLL's second runway opens up at the end of the year we will have an additional arrival and feeder added.
 

Scott Montroy

Newcomer
May 15, 2014
22
3
3
Dallas
Robert, that was probably Nora. During that last bid they tried a new idea of metering people into the facility. They were afraid too many at once would overload the system. I wasn't FacRep at that time, so I can only assume that is what caused the delay. You were not the only body we lost due to that. There were others that accepted other positions while waiting. Also, our staffing wasn't as bad then as now. We have lost bodies every year for the last 8 years.
 

Scott Montroy

Newcomer
May 15, 2014
22
3
3
Dallas
Robert, what Jax said is correct. We are split East and West with some "common functions", the DFW arrivals and DFW/DAL jet departures. We bid East and West specialty separately with different amounts of prime-time leave slots based upon how many people are in each area. It is a bit complicated because of the shared positions, but it is what works best. As far as CIP, that isn't in the cards for now. I checked into it and there are very good political reasons why we do not need to pursue CIP at D10 right now. When contract negotiations come up again in 2016, I will be asking them to consider us for some, at least on a temporary basis.
 

Scott Montroy

Newcomer
May 15, 2014
22
3
3
Dallas
airkiwi, the problem with a swap is that it causes the facility to lose a body to gain a "maybe". First, you have to find someone willing to swap, and like you said, plenty of people want to be at D10, so that is tough to start. In general, we don't pull ERR lists by themselves and get them with the bids we put out.

In reality, I don't want people bidding D10 that are just looking for the quickest way to a 12, because our attrition rate is just too high. I want people that want to come to D10 to stay. If you want to be here for the rest of your career, I don't know why anyone would care if it takes a year or two to get picked up. With that said, pick ups will hopefully happen faster now. Our staffing is worse and we are no longer going to try to spread out the arrivals.

Our current bid had 120 applicants with 94 making the referral list. We are still waiting for the ERR list, but my understanding is that there are approximately 40 on it. Competition is high to get to D10, but we are worth it.