DOD Seniority

raw_dog

Newcomer
Jun 11, 2013
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Greetings ladies and gents,

I'm new to the site, but hoping the expertise around here can settle a longstanding debate going on at my workplace. Right now I'm Air Force DOD, been working there 10 years this fall. There's 10 of us civilians in the RAPCON, 5 were hired after retirement and 5 after our first or second terms. I was hired after 6 years in the AF and separated as a SSgt.

So here's my question: how is DOD seniority determined? A first-termer who separated as a SrA was our first civilian hired back in 2001, but then a retired MSgt who retired and hired in 2004 claims he has more seniority. I was hired in 2003 after serving six years active duty, but have been told I have less seniority than another retired MSgt who started in 2009, because he has more federal service than me.

So what determines DOD seniority? Is it date of hire? Is it total federal service? And if it is total federal service, does it start at ZERO for retirees when they begin? And furthermore, what advantages does this seniority grant; schedule preference, career advancement opportunities such as automation training?

We've been fighting amongst ourselves for a while now. I was curious as to how the rest of ya'll are handling it.

Thanks
 

TNT

Newcomer
Jan 22, 2013
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JAPAN
Compare your Service computation dates on your SF-50 or current LES that will settle it. Whoever has the oldest is the winner. Retired military start over when they join the DOD and those who didn't retire will have their military time counted toward their SCD date.

This date is important for RIF purposes and retirement. However, other things such as performance evaluations, disability and sometimes the discretion of management in accordance with OPM regulations factor into career advancement etc.

Also, one place I worked and I'm not sure if this is right, gave schedule preference based on the employees start date at the facility instead of SCD date. I guess it was used to reward those that stuck it out there. Hope this helps
 

raw_dog

Newcomer
Jun 11, 2013
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Thank you for the reply. It sounds like we're handling things about the same way. For the longest time we used the SCD to settle the debate but now people who were accustomed to outranking others when active duty, don't like being told they're below former SrA in the pecking order. Our main problem is scheduling priority. We always went by SCD in the past but now its being changed to date of hire because certain retirees are "pulling rank".
 

raw_dog

Newcomer
Jun 11, 2013
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Good info on the links. I'm still interested in hearing exactly what ya'll are doing at the other locales, especially those running 24 hr ops. No one wants to work nights or weekends, but how do you divvy up the schedules? Is SCD the sole determining factor or do ya'll go by another method?
 

WatchThis

Trusted Contributor
Apr 29, 2010
561
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Arizona
SCD rules at my location, as it should be. That's coming from a 20 year military retiree that's also suddenly junior. It's a little weird at first but it's right. One way to overcome that is to apply for higher positions if they are available but for the common pool of workers, SCD should be the determining factor.

I don't think hire date is a bad idea but I would think that would fail if someone were to officially challenge that practice.
 
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SkylinesSuck

Trusted Contributor
Sep 4, 2009
585
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Common sense stuff like scheduling and being unrated at a facility aside, if you are talking about RIF, I got out after 7 years AD and bought back my time. After 3 years in DoD, I'm like 5th out of 10 people for getting RIF'd if that happened. I'm ahead of several retired MSgt's who have also been in the DoD longer than me. If they wanted, they could buy back their military time, but it would cost a retarded amount, and they would loose their retirement checks.

Now about schedules and stuff, maybe I'm just lucky to be in a chill facility, but there is zero arguing over that. Yeah, some of the older guys get the better schedules, and don't have as many additional duties, but it's not a big deal. I think the younger guys regardless of SCD or whatever that argue over that kinda stuff get labeled as being difficult, and in the long run I'd rather just do my time/pay my dues in the great ATC machine and wait for my turn. Being "one of those people" might get me passed over for the job I want at the next place.
 

TomOZR

Rookie
Jun 17, 2008
45
2
8
Good info on the links. I'm still interested in hearing exactly what ya'll are doing at the other locales, especially those running 24 hr ops. No one wants to work nights or weekends, but how do you divvy up the schedules? Is SCD the sole determining factor or do ya'll go by another method?
Couple things to remember, First, although you work for the Air Force (Army, Navy, or Marines), you are in fact a civilian. All that Sgt/ Airman crap is left behind the day you took off your uniform. Second, your work rules are covered by labor law as negotiated by your bargaining unit. Now I realize at most DOD facilities you think you are on your own. But that is not the case. For example, at Ft Rucker where I retired from we where a bargaining unit covered by AFGE.
The bargaining unit consisted of all the civilian workers at the post. So my point is this. You should be able to make a schedule in house that is fair to all employees regardless of seniority. But if you can't, you can always grieve your working conditions and bring in your union rep. Personally, I rather do it in house.
 

meanjoe

Trusted Member
Apr 23, 2011
490
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We go by scd here for bidding schedules. A lot of folks like the odd weekends schedules. Only our bottom couple guys are working schedules that they don't like, which sucks. We used to work a 2-2-1 with rotating days off. It was equal and fair that way. Majority rules and most people wanted fixed days off...so here we are. I got the schedule I wanted M-F so I'm good.

To clarify a little: If you retired and are receiving a check your scd won't take into account your milatary time unless it's combat time. I believe your official combat time will count toward your service comp date.
 

TomOZR

Rookie
Jun 17, 2008
45
2
8
We go by scd here for bidding schedules. A lot of folks like the odd weekends schedules. Only our bottom couple guys are working schedules that they don't like, which sucks. We used to work a 2-2-1 with rotating days off. It was equal and fair that way. Majority rules and most people wanted fixed days off...so here we are. I got the schedule I wanted M-F so I'm good.

To clarify a little: If you retired and are receiving a check your scd won't take into account your milatary time unless it's combat time. I believe your official combat time will count toward your service comp date.
Do you mean if you retire from the military and then take a civil service job?
If you retire from Fed Civil Service any military time that you pay back through the military deposit program is counted for retirement purposes. Combat or not.
 

Roddy_Piper

Resident Knucklehead
Jun 15, 2008
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there is literally no federal-wide regulation that stipulates DOD ATC seniority.

my initial belief is that the one who has the most DOD time should be senior. however, again there is no such thing as DOD seniority by regulation or memorandum.

i suppose i understand the reasoning that SCD is the seniority date for DOD. it's BS though if anyone says that it's the deciding factor.

anyway, good luck with this one. nothing governs it for or against you. talk to your CCTLR, AOF, or civilian supervisor (emphasis on civilian).

don't let the retired old MSgts make up something that doesn't exist. a military retirement has diddly squat to do with DOD employment.
 

meagarunt22

Junior Member
Jul 15, 2010
133
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BFE, NM
I didn't realize this was an issue at other places. Where I work, no one argues over shifts. We all just take turns working the crap ones and it's pretty equal. I am now a little more grateful for where I work. Speaking of... the new Holloman listing just came out. Great place to work people!