Failed PV at Academy / Second Chance

lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
1,316
33
48
WV
You have 9 weeks at the Academy to pass 2 pass/fail exams (well, did until they changed it to the new points-based PV). You get months to years of training in the field, specialized to your facility with your traffic and there's no "fail this session and you're done" bullshit to contend with.

The PV system just isn't set up well. Some guy who sits with you for one run can't possibly know what kind of controller you'd make in the field. I've been working with the same trainers for 6 months...I've had the same supervisor, and I'll be checked out within another month or 2. My trainers know it, my supervisor knows it, and I know it. Is it possible that I might have a crappy skills check? Maybe. Then I get another 10 hours of training and we run it again, because my supe knows how I work and maybe I just wasn't as efficient as I could have been because I was tired or something. It's not some random guy who comes in from some random facility and doesn't know me just throws on a headset and says "Ok bro let's see how you do, you don't run this shit like I want you to and I'm recommending termination of training." That's not how the real world works, and it's why the Academy is a shitty screen.
The guy who's sitting with you should be predisposed to pass you on to the field. If he doesn't, it's because you did something wrong AND your instructors tell him, "Yeah, that's consistent with where he's been the whole time."

As for the idea that there are no make-or-break sessions after the Academy, I promise you that there are. If you are a trainee who has struggled to separate airplanes the entire time, then your last 40 hours/3 weeks of training are what I'm using to determine whether I can recommend you for certification. You sound like you've done well the whole time, so an A1 for you might get written off by your trainers as one bad day, especially if you don't need their help to get out of it. If you had done poorly up to that point, then that A1 would be a sign that you still don't get it, and a TRB is required.
 

NovaZDC

Trusted Member
Apr 8, 2009
414
6
18
You have 9 weeks at the Academy to pass 2 pass/fail exams (well, did until they changed it to the new points-based PV). You get months to years of training in the field, specialized to your facility with your traffic and there's no "fail this session and you're done" bullshit to contend with.

The PV system just isn't set up well. Some guy who sits with you for one run can't possibly know what kind of controller you'd make in the field. I've been working with the same trainers for 6 months...I've had the same supervisor, and I'll be checked out within another month or 2. My trainers know it, my supervisor knows it, and I know it. Is it possible that I might have a crappy skills check? Maybe. Then I get another 10 hours of training and we run it again, because my supe knows how I work and maybe I just wasn't as efficient as I could have been because I was tired or something. It's not some random guy who comes in from some random facility and doesn't know me just throws on a headset and says "Ok bro let's see how you do, you don't run this shit like I want you to and I'm recommending termination of training." That's not how the real world works, and it's why the Academy is a shitty screen.
I know this started as a tower thread but at a center you basically have 6 more PVs upstairs as well during D and R school. You do your first one after only a handful of problems. Fail any of those twice and your gone. How gone you are I guess is decided on how far in training you are at the time. But I do understand what you're saying. I think most things in life have a degree of unfairness built in. Hard to make everything perfect for everybody and the human factor will always play a part.
 

Jax

Senior Analyst
Nov 17, 2010
869
32
28
N90-EWR
"skills that pay the bills"

Some people have them, while others don't. In some cases, it is pretty clear right from the get go that somebody is just not cut out to do this job, and if the Academy does the job its supposed to do, they'd get "weeded out" at that stage, and save wasting the time of the trainers on the field (not to mention the money cost).

In some cases, you can tell also from the get go that a trainee is a "natural", and should be just fine. This ones usually have no issues passing the academy.

It is that 3rd group of the "unknowns" that is really hard to figure out. Some may be slower in "getting it", but have good traits, and are trainable, while others may be able to get by in slower places, even if they'll never make it at the busier/more complex facilities. Its is usually the ones that fall under this 3rd category that may be unfairly cut (if at the academy), or fired (if passed the academy but washed out at the first facility). Like the above poster said, it is very hard to make everything perfect for everybody.
 

JamesEarlJones

Senior Member
Jan 9, 2014
258
17
18
There are three kinds of controllers...

A. The ones that are naturals... this is about 5-10% or the force.

B. The ones that are so terrible that no one wants to work with them... again 5-10% of the force.

C. Then there is everyone in between. The majority of controllers are just average...
 

TonySeagle

Newcomer
Jan 6, 2015
17
0
1
I'm still butthurt that I have years of experience in real-world ATC (Enroute) and didn't even get my first chance :p
 

freakfly23

Rookie
Aug 28, 2014
26
1
3
Has anyone heard of anyone reappying and passing? Actually, has anyone hear of someone even getting in after reappling?
 

soonerkid

Rookie
Sep 11, 2008
64
0
6
Middle of Nowhere
Has anyone heard of anyone reappying and passing? Actually, has anyone hear of someone even getting in after reappling?
I know somebody who was hired under a pub NAT announcement, washed out of their facility after passing the academy (during white book). Then was rehired under the red book after having to completely reapply.....and go to the academy pass (again) and go on to certify.
 

phillyman2633

Epic Member
May 13, 2010
4,203
88
48
International waters
www.drudgereport.com
Has anyone heard of anyone reappying and passing? Actually, has anyone hear of someone even getting in after reappling?
Yes I know one person who failed out of the Academy, went back and reappied and is now certified at their facility and another person who washed out of a center, was not offered another facility, reappled and is now certified at a tower.

And yes, I did subtly make fun of your spelling. Twice.
 

TEXASATC21

Rookie
Jun 27, 2014
33
1
8
I love the crying on here! You had your shot now go work at wal mart and let the next guy or gal waiting in line have their shot!

CPC 6 years military 3 CTO'S :)


"SINK OR SWIM" that one guy cryin on here obviously DROWNED!!!
 

JamesEarlJones

Senior Member
Jan 9, 2014
258
17
18
I love the crying on here! You had your shot now go work at wal mart and let the next guy or gal waiting in line have their shot!

CPC 6 years military 3 CTO'S :)


"SINK OR SWIM" that one guy cryin on here obviously DROWNED!!!

And guess what... I mean this with sincere respect. NO ONE in the FAA gives a shit that you have 3 CTO's from the military.
 

FM_Weasel

Senior Analyst
Dec 9, 2008
988
7
18
I love the crying on here! You had your shot now go work at wal mart and let the next guy or gal waiting in line have their shot!

CPC 6 years military 3 CTO'S :)


"SINK OR SWIM" that one guy cryin on here obviously DROWNED!!!
You tell 'em, Jethro.