Failing the PV

purpletw

Trusted Member
Dec 14, 2010
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Lots of good info in this thread. Good luck to everyone. Why did this thread change names so many times?
 

mikefsfr

Epic Member
May 31, 2010
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Train Me.
The evaluators are given a briefing to let them know what the Academy Airport layout is and what the students are expected to know, in case you get an evaluator from an airport like ORD that expects you to be flawless with as "slow" a problem as you have there.

At the same time, some instructors are more lenient than others about what can fail you or not. One biggie is whether or not the actions taken by the sim planes would happen in real life or not. For instance, at the end of my local PV, I had DAL802* holding short of 28R with ASA731* rolling out on 28R after having just landed. I was about to give the relief briefing when I keyed up and said, "Delta 733, turn right at [taxiway] Echo; contact ground when off." Alaska had already turned off, and then the Delta jet pulled out on the runway and started his slow taxi toward taxiway Echo to turn off, as instructed. During the briefing, I told the instructor everything as I knew it to be. The instructor then asked me what the Delta jet was doing, which is when I first noticed him moving onto the runway. The instructor laughed and said he wouldn't fail me on that because the jet wouldn't have done that in the real world anyway.

On the ground PV, I had a Southwest jet and United heavy coming out of the terminal taxiing to 28R while Air France was taxiing back to the terminal via B-C-I. When Air France got close to the terminal, I held the position on SWA416 and UAL492(H) to give Air France a chance to pass, which the instructor liked. The problem came when I told the two jets to continue taxiing -- but in Academy land, you are supposed to tell them where to taxi so they respond. With just enough time for responses from the two pilots, I said, "SWA416, continue taxiing to runway 28R." He responded. Then, "United 492 Heavy, continue taxiing to runway 28L." I have no idea why I said "left", but by God, he read that back and did just that. As soon as a Citation was put in position on 28R, the big ass United jet went right behind the Citation and chugged right over to 28L. My local controller looked at me like "WTF?! Why did you just taxi him over to 28L??" while I looked at him like "WTF? Why did you send the heavy jet to the left runway??" The instructor told me that in real life, the pilot would have asked for clarification instead of just moving right on over, especially since I didn't give him runway crossing instructions.

These are the only things the instructors said I did wrong. We had a few people that couldn't even get out a single departure and had six jets stacked up at 28R ready for takeoff, along with three on 28L and three on 16. They got so worked up with the pattern trying to keep it straight that they didn't even launch anyone else. THAT kind of stuff will put you in the student services office getting your termination paperwork processed.

There are quirks in the simulator system that can cause problems if you say the wrong thing because it can't discern between what is legal to do and what isn't. It processes what you tell it to do, and it does it. Your instructor is your last line of defense, and you do have a little bit of a chance to explain yourself if you do something like what I did.

*I don't remember the specific callsigns, so those are guesses used for retelling the story.



if this guy passed, i guess anyone can, jeez luiz.
 

barty

Trusted Member
Sep 25, 2008
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HaHA, the old can't have a deal if you don't give a clearance trick. This is famous in Enroute, since you basically can only get deals by clearing people off the ground, so just give some EFC time after the problem is over and magically no errors..
When I went through a couple of years ago, we were told that this was NOT an option on the PV. We were told that your could supposedly fail if you left all your departures on the ground because it changed the complexity of the problem significantly.

It never became an issue on our PV, but I'm sure it was probably in reaction to some people just letting the lines ring forever, or as you said, issuing ridiculous EFC times when there was ample opportunity to get the aircraft off the ground.
 

Rosstafari

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Aug 17, 2008
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Your point?
Not sure what you're trying to read into that, but there wasn't a hidden message.

It never became an issue on our PV, but I'm sure it was probably in reaction to some people just letting the lines ring forever, or as you said, issuing ridiculous EFC times when there was ample opportunity to get the aircraft off the ground.
Yeah, they "officially" put the kibosh on that with the new grading system last summer. Seems like if someone's clever enough to come up with ideas like that, they should be smart enough to work out the problem anyway... but maybe I'm wrong.
 

jermscentral

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2009
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St. Louis, MO
Not sure what you're trying to read into that, but there wasn't a hidden message.
Seemed like a condescending tone after the, "If this guy can make it," post; as though I got selected for SUS, a small level 6 (now 5) VFR tower, because I had the potential to make a simple mistake that had no way of harming passengers.

Apologies if that's not how you meant it.
 

UNDATCer

Trusted Member
Apr 5, 2009
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Does anyone know if you for sure can or cannot re-apply under the same bid if you fail out of the academy? I.E. CTI, VRA, CTO, etc? Thanks
 

ladiesolo

Trusted Member
Jun 19, 2009
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PM Ross about the dude who walked out on his Tower PV. He just got real frustrated or something and didn't finish. I thought I read on here somewhere that he reapplied. I believe he was OTS, can't be for certain.
 

Rosstafari

Daaaang.
Aug 17, 2008
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Yeah. Happened just like she said, he applied to the next PUBNAT, and got picked up off of it. Can't remember where he was getting sent to the second time around.