Formation flights

newtoatc

Newcomer
Aug 18, 2009
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Hello, I am a newbe ATCer and want to know the differences between a standard and non-standard formation flight. If you have any resources I would
greatly appreciate them. Thanks
 

The Heatles

Loving Life
Jun 15, 2008
2,172
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Miami, FL
A standard formation flight is within 1 mile laterally and 100 ft vertically of the flight lead. non-standard is anything other than that...
 

newtoatc

Newcomer
Aug 18, 2009
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So although unlikely, is it conceivable that you may have up to 10 aircraft in the same 1000ft altitude block while controlling a standard formation flight?
 
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djmodifyd

Guest
So although unlikely, is it conceivable that you may have up to 10 aircraft in the same 1000ft altitude block while controlling a standard formation flight?
yes...or just add 1 mile to your normal separation....
so if you usually need 3 miles/1000ft, you need 4 miles/1000ft if a standard flight (of whatever number...largest i've seen is 6, i don't know how large they actually go)
 

newtoatc

Newcomer
Aug 18, 2009
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Okay, so what I gather is that you can have multiple aircraft within a standard formation flight assigned to one altitude. If it is one flight of however many you would add 1 mile to standard radar separation from any other traffic. Typically standard flights fly in a V-type configuration. Are there times that they will fly in a longitudinal type pattern as long as they are within one mile of the leading flight member who may not necessarily be the flight lead? Or would this be considered a non-standard formation?
 
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djmodifyd

Guest
Okay, so what I gather is that you can have multiple aircraft within a standard formation flight assigned to one altitude. If it is one flight of however many you would add 1 mile to standard radar separation from any other traffic. Typically standard flights fly in a V-type configuration. Are there times that they will fly in a longitudinal type pattern as long as they are within one mile of the leading flight member who may not necessarily be the flight lead? Or would this be considered a non-standard formation?
yes you are correct..

and the latter part to that question is beyond me...they just tell me either standard or non-standard...i don't know where they get that from
 

Roddy_Piper

Resident Knucklehead
Jun 15, 2008
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they don't always fly in a V-formation. they sometimes fly in a left or right echelon formation. 1st guy in the front left/right position, then back and to the left/right they go behind the leader. they'll set them up so the leader is in the position to make their next turn without turning in front of number 2. ie: the next turn is gonna be a right turn, the wingmen will be back and left of the leader.

if u have 2 standard formations then add 2 miles. 1 mile for each formation.
 

vm2152

Senior Member
Sep 10, 2008
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newtoatc...

you may be "new to atc" but perhaps you should just look in the 7110.65. it clearly states in the P/CG.
 

otterstrom

Trusted Member
Jun 16, 2008
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of NATCA
Can someone tell me if you still are required to use the word "flight" when controlling a flight of aircraft?
just use the callsign printed on the strip.

So although unlikely, is it conceivable that you may have up to 10 aircraft in the same 1000ft altitude block while controlling a standard formation flight?
that many usually don't depart together. they come off in trail and fly non-standard until they form up. its usually a big mess stretching 10+ miles and with altitudes varying by thousands of feet like a big snake crossing the scope until they tighten things up to standard. as long as you're not busy its fun to see.
 
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Radarluv

Old Guy
Jul 17, 2008
31
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6
Can someone tell me if you still are required to use the word "flight" when controlling a flight of aircraft?

Not required, and it is actually incorrect to use the word "flight" in the call sign. Example- Viper22 is the call sign, 2/F16/P is the type aircraft. Use the word flight on a traffic call- "traffic 2 o'clock, 4 miles, flight of 2 F16s"
 

diva0251

Newcomer
Mar 5, 2013
1
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1
TX
i'm currently writing a book. character is in AF & flies B-2. hopefully someone will help me with these questions.

do you break formation if an enemy is approaching?
do you have tactical fighter with them?
 

cali

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2015
279
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16
Can someone confirm with me that a standard flight of two and a non standard flight of two, one mile in trail, are the same thing...
 

Usm4r1n3

Trusted Member
Sep 26, 2013
336
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Controlled as one. Non standard is just a factor in separating from the last member in the flight.
 

cali

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2015
279
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that in both scenarios, you're only separating the lead aircraft by 6 miles, in regards to other ifr aircraft.
 

wxdude

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2015
172
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49
Standard formation you seperate by 6. For nonstandard you seperate 5 + however far away the wingman is....or 5 miles on the front and back aircraft plus everything between for in trail formations.

Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk
 

cali

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2015
279
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16
I actually found a reference on this....listen up cuz I'm sure not a lot of people realize this with flights. A standard formation means everyone in the flight is within 1 mile of the lead and 100 feet vertical. Where non standard is different is that each element of the flight can be up to 500 feet vertical and how ever many miles in trail they request. This is why you typically always see a non standard flight in a block altitude if they are a flight of two and.report one mile in trail. What makes them non standard is their vertical separation in that scenario
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
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Long Island
5−5−8. ADDITIONAL SEPARATION FOR
FORMATION FLIGHTS
Because of the distance allowed between formation
aircraft and lead aircraft, additional separation is
necessary to ensure the periphery of the formation is
adequately separated from other aircraft, adjacent
airspace, or obstructions. Provide supplemental
separation for formation flights as follows:
a. Separate a standard formation flight by adding
1 mile to the appropriate radar separation minima.
REFERENCE−
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 2−1−13 , Formation Flights.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 5−5−1 , Application.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 7−7−3 , Separation.
P/CG Term− Formation Flight.
b. Separate two standard formation flights from
each other by adding 2 miles to the appropriate
separation minima.

c. Separate a nonstandard formation flight by
applying the appropriate separation minima to the
perimeter of the airspace encompassing the
nonstandard formation or from the outermost aircraft
of the nonstandard formation whichever applies.
d. If necessary for separation between a
nonstandard formation and other aircraft, assign an
appropriate beacon code to each aircraft in the
formation or to the first and last aircraft in-trail.
NOTE−
The additional separation provided in Paragraph 5−5−8,
Additional Separation for Formation Flights, is not
normally added to wake turbulence separation when a
formation is following a heavier aircraft since none of the
formation aircraft are likely to be closer to the heavier
aircraft than the lead aircraft (to which the prescribed
wake turbulence separation has been applied).
REFERENCE−
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 9−2−13 , Military Aerial Refueling.
 

NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
68
48
Long Island
Wxdude where you getting 6 miles from? A standard formation is separated from other IFR aircraft by 4 miles. A nonstandard you separate from other IFR aircraft by 5 miles.