Green Book Back Rumor from The Main Bang

Roddy_Piper

Resident Knucklehead
Jun 15, 2008
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Vegas baby
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the two books are the two "contracts" that we've been most recently operating on.

the green book is the last agreed upon contract. it was very pro-controller.
the white book is the current imposed work rules. it was NOT a ratified contract, but it was legally imposed on us. it's all the rules in regards to being employees. pay, dress code, leave, etc.
 

Davo

Trusted Contributor
Mar 14, 2009
699
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the two books are the two "contracts" that we've been most recently operating on.

the green book is the last agreed upon contract. it was very pro-controller.
the white book is the current imposed work rules. it was NOT a ratified contract, but it was legally imposed on us. it's all the rules in regards to being employees. pay, dress code, leave, etc.
Is there a copy of the contract floating around online somewhere that I can view? What is the proper title of it that google might find. Thanks Rod.
 

rudderless

Newcomer
Apr 23, 2009
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arlington, tx
I do know that at fort worth center the management has already prepared dor returning to the green book and are expecting it- they have briefed all the supes on their plans and expectations, but that may be just a case of them preparing for the worst. after sep 3, ZFW turned into a prison camp and they know there is going to be a backlash against management like nothing they have ever seen......................................
 

rudderless

Newcomer
Apr 23, 2009
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arlington, tx
ps i dont know about other facilities, but at fort worth center they are currently not even honoring their imposed white book - they just do whatever they want, and if you say anythng, they throw down the threat of prosecution for insubordination...............hence the prison camp reference.
 

DragonDT

Newcomer
Nov 21, 2008
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Anchorage
I've said it once and I will say it agian, The green book does not cover pay scales. If you go through and look there is nothing that says you will be paid this much for working at this facility. The pay will have to be negotiated as well as a new contract. The GREEN BOOK DOES NOT COVER PAY SCALES!!!!
 

chris325ci

Rookie
Nov 9, 2008
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I've said it once and I will say it agian, The green book does not cover pay scales. If you go through and look there is nothing that says you will be paid this much for working at this facility. The pay will have to be negotiated as well as a new contract. The GREEN BOOK DOES NOT COVER PAY SCALES!!!!

I don't follow your point. Then explain article 108 in the contract? Whether or not they are technically connected is a moot point anyways since a new pay scale was forced on us when the white book was implemented. Pay is the biggest issue here and it will be addressed with negotiations.
 

ATCinWI

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2009
284
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Illinois
Article 108 of the IWR says who gets paid for working where. If the IWR "white book" was thrown out, the pay would be up for negotiation, and there is little chance of this happening and there still being 2 separate pay scales.

This, of course, is based on if the white book is thrown out or not during the upcoming mediation.
 

DragonDT

Newcomer
Nov 21, 2008
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Anchorage
I don't follow your point. Then explain article 108 in the contract? Whether or not they are technically connected is a moot point anyways since a new pay scale was forced on us when the white book was implemented. Pay is the biggest issue here and it will be addressed with negotiations.
I'll say it again, The GREEN BOOK does not cover pay scales. The pay that was used while the green book was a completely different negotiation and Just going back to the green book will not fix the pay. Pay is a totally different issue that will have to be addressed. Even with that said I do not see the pay changing significantly if it changes at all. With the current economy situation how can anyone stand in front of congress and ask for significant pay raises for a career that most ppl think is paid good money already. It is easy to sit on this side of the line and say we should be paid more but look at it from the average Americans point of view.
 

Kwik_Stix

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Apr 15, 2009
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Raleigh, NC
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I do know that at fort worth center the management has already prepared dor returning to the green book and are expecting it- they have briefed all the supes on their plans and expectations, but that may be just a case of them preparing for the worst. after sep 3, ZFW turned into a prison camp and they know there is going to be a backlash against management like nothing they have ever seen......................................
you make it sound like Hitler giving orders at the end of WWII in case Germany was about to be defeated....

hopefully you guys know your history and know what I'm talking about
 

MikeATC

Retired FAA, NATCA Member
Apr 3, 2009
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Nashville TN
In all seriousness, rumors are running rampant, not even the general membership of NATCA know what the starting point for negotiations will be, nor what will be placed on the table.

If you don't see the information coming from the NATCA National Office then I wouldn't place much stock in it.
 

ColtsATC

Trusted Contributor
Aug 27, 2008
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With the current economy situation how can anyone stand in front of congress and ask for significant pay raises for a career that most ppl think is paid good money already.
Lol, ya they all think that til they step on an airplane and suddenly their opinion changes. I talked to a few people in a bar about that one day on my way over to the big sandbox
 
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Radium

Epic Member
Jan 14, 2009
1,988
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I think the #1 ATC assumption is its REALLY stressfull. So thats b4 the pay situation. So if the general public thinks about that over the pay, thats a good sign.

Sidenote: every time a thread is bumped here I cross my fingers for some good news, and its always something random, like a pic of some McHammer Pants... and then I'm sad. Oh well, imo new fiscal yr will answer all the questions.
 

Kwik_Stix

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Apr 15, 2009
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Raleigh, NC
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one argument for the pay issue is that while the going was great, and everyone else was getting pay raises in the country and doing prosperous, we got a pay cut.... we kind of already went through the economic hardship, just a few years earlier than everyone else haha
 

ST1300_memory

Newcomer
May 13, 2009
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Quartz Hill, Ca.
one argument for the pay issue is that while the going was great, and everyone else was getting pay raises in the country and doing prosperous, we got a pay cut.... we kind of already went through the economic hardship, just a few years earlier than everyone else haha
I find it hard to believe that anyone's pay was reduced ("paycut").

The FAA just chose to change the rules midstream. Not the coolest of things to do, but no where near what happened to some airline pilots who actually DID get not only there pay cut in half, but watched their entire pension and 401k company plans disappear.

Working for the govt is about as recession proof as you can get. No pay raise, but I still take home a very good paycheck every two weeks.

Things can only get better, I got plenty of time, so I choose to wait.
 
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MikeATC

Retired FAA, NATCA Member
Apr 3, 2009
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Nashville TN
ST, I call loosing CIC premium pay as a pay cut, where I work I average over 20 hours per week as CIC or WCIC, in addition I haven't received a pay increase for the past three years while management and staff have received pay increases, I call this a pay cut.
 

noid

Curtis E. Carr
Jun 24, 2008
2,024
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In a van down by the river.
The loss of save pay is also a pay cut. Someone on the A-scale going to a facility +1 level from their current facility would actually lose money because they don't keep their current pay, they drop down to the b-scale. Going from a 10 to a 12 is a benefit of a couple grand, not really worth it.

This has created the problem of not enough experienced controllers at the higher facilities. It used to be the normal progression where you would work your way from a lower facility to a higher one. Now there is little-to-no incentive to make that transition, which is unfairly placing new-hires in these higher facilities.
 

delrey

Newcomer
Feb 12, 2009
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Oh well. That's the way the man wants it, so that's the way he gets it. Let them worry about it. I walked out of my FAA facility, after telling my sup where to shove it, and I have never felt better, nor do I have any regrets. I just chalk it up to the fact that it wasn't my time. I'm done with them and I'll let some naive newbie worry about it, where they'll walk all over him, and the pressure will eventually wash him out and turn him over, time and time again. SAD. It's a broken system, with broken people in charge. Until "they" are removed, things will NEVER get better, and I am GONE, and much happier too.
 
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