Grievance B

lineup_n_wait

Junior Member
May 5, 2012
95
1
6
Washington, DC
Any update on this? Was filed in the summer of 2015...something about arguing the d3/d2/d1 pay steps. Especially for facilities that combines CD/FD and were counting it as only 1 skill when other facilities counted it as 2 separate positions.


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BrewnATC

Epic Member
Jan 28, 2015
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Ass deep in a folding chair
Any update on this? Was filed in the summer of 2015...something about arguing the d3/d2/d1 pay steps. Especially for facilities that combines CD/FD and were counting it as only 1 skill when other facilities counted it as 2 separate positions.


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Wouldnt splitting those positions delay their raises? Be careful what you wish for I guess
 

lineup_n_wait

Junior Member
May 5, 2012
95
1
6
Washington, DC
The argument is that other trainees get their pay raise after getting checkout to work FD/CD, and GC. Small facilities that combine all 3, those trainees have to wait until clearing LC to get the pay bump.


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ajmezz

Epic Member
Apr 8, 2010
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If it's all combined, it should be quicker and easier to check out, no?
 

bradjackman

Trusted Member
May 7, 2009
448
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Boise
If it's all combined, it should be quicker and easier to check out, no?
No. It's not changing the amount of time to certify, you still have to certify on the position and you can still certify on it combined, it's that they weren't counting FD as a position at all, so when it's added it's bumping up your percentage of completed positions, and bumping up when you get the raises.

Here's the scenario at my facility. We had no D1, so there's AG, D2, D3, and CPC pay levels. We had 6 positions, and raises were at or after certifying on 33% and 66% percent of the positions. However, when you count FD as a position, it moves the percentages up one position.

Here's what we had:
CD - 20%
GC - 40% <---D2 Raise
LC - 60%
RADAR1 - 80% <---D3 Raise
RADAR2 - 100% <---CPC Raise

If you count FD as a position in the percentages:
FD & CD - 33% <---D2 Raise
GC - 50%
LC - 66%<---D3 Raise
RADAR1 - 83%
RADAR2 - 100% <---CPC Raise

So all the trainees should have started getting D2 pay after completing CD, but instead didn't get the raise until completing GC. Because of our terrible training program, that was sometimes 3 months or more that you spent at AG pay. Then the D3 raise was supposed to be at LC, before you went to RTF and before you finished your first radar position, which was sometimes 12 to 18 months of delay. For at least one of our trainees, this change will mean something like a $20,000 check because he was delayed for so long. For me, it's a few thousand bucks. However, it seems to have been swept under the rug.

This doesn't change things in all scenarios, it depends upon the number of positions your facility has, but for us, it's fairly significant.
 

Stinger

Epic Member
May 24, 2009
1,563
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I was a 7 up/down. Before I got there, they added a handoff position that needed to be certified on during the radar training so it extended the D2 to D3 period. And handoff and radar are typically certified on within a day of each other, so it's basically D2 then CPC.

CD/GC....D2 raise
LC....still D2
Radar....D3
Handoff...CPC

Just depends between radar and handoff which one is D3 and which is CPC. Doesn't really matter.
 

j_time41

Senior Analyst
Nov 17, 2008
1,014
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Lakeville, MN
This may be a big deal in your facility.....from what I read my first facility did it the way you described as unfair, and at my 7 up/down Clearence was combined with ground so it's one position....coming from a smaller facility then moving up to a center, where I watched trainee after trainee be on AG pay for over a year.....seems kinda silly thing to try and argue about. Check out in your facility in a year or two, transfer to a high level, and that money you lost between positions (maybe a couple grand max?) means very little. As you probably know, everything in this career makes sense, but I would rather concentrate on issues that are a big deal.

Furthermore, I think if you argue this you may be shooting yourself in the foot, because management would be well within their rights ( as they already are) to only allow you train CD until you check out and setting hours at say 50 minimum, then move to Ground only, and so on. Seems like that would be quite a bit worse
 

bradjackman

Trusted Member
May 7, 2009
448
1
18
Boise
...Check out in your facility in a year or two, transfer to a high level...
Hahahaha! Have you seen the NCEPT thread? You're funny. I'm not even shedding a tear for the center guys getting 10-12 pay. Try 3 years to cert at a level 7 because the training program sucks, then indefinite delay on transfers because of staffing levels. You should try standup.
 

BrewnATC

Epic Member
Jan 28, 2015
2,399
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Ass deep in a folding chair
Hahahaha! Have you seen the NCEPT thread? You're funny. I'm not even shedding a tear for the center guys getting 10-12 pay. Try 3 years to cert at a level 7 because the training program sucks, then indefinite delay on transfers because of staffing levels. You should try standup.
Only matters when it affects them...Otherwise they don't give a shit. Exactly why we are in the situation we're in.
 

lineup_n_wait

Junior Member
May 5, 2012
95
1
6
Washington, DC
Actually I think filing this grievance is the reason I got fired. I was on probation and management thought I was being greedy or ungrateful for the job I had. My NATCA rep told me to do it though.


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NovemberEcho

Epic Member
Dec 8, 2010
4,388
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Long Island
If it's all combined, it should be quicker and easier to check out, no?
i don't know how it's done at other facilities, but at mine if a position is combined you can only count your hours towards 1 position at a time. Ie. Feeder/final always combined. Each had 25 hours min time, I needed to work them combined for 50 hours to reach mins on both.
 

lowapproach

Epic Member
Oct 29, 2010
1,316
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WV
Actually I think filing this grievance is the reason I got fired. I was on probation and management thought I was being greedy or ungrateful for the job I had. My NATCA rep told me to do it though.


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Where the hell were you that your representative told you to file a grievance as a probationary employee?